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Technical Pontiac Trophy 4

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TheSteamDoc, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:54 AM.

  1. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
    Member

    Found a Pontiac Trophy 4 in a Tempest today. I can imagine this isn't a everyday find. It's 395 out the gate complete. Is this a fair price? I don't wanna leave it.
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,960

    squirrel
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    Do you have plans for it? or looking to make some money on it? or just want to save a piece of history?

    I would have no problem leaving it where it is....
     
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  3. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
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    Save it for now.
     
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  4. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,286

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  5. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,112

    blowby
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    from Nicasio Ca

    Never had one, knew about them, read about them here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Trophy_4_engine
    No doubt someone has hopped one up, especially since they use many 389 parts. For a street car? Heavy, vibrating..

    Found this bit interesting:
    Due to the geometry of the wrist pins, connecting rods and crankshaft journals a piston descending from top dead center will always move quicker through the first 30 degrees of crankshaft travel than a piston moving upward from bottom dead center, meaning that more mass is moving downward than is moving upward, causing a shaking in the vertical plane.
    Would this be caused by the cylinders being offset from the crank centerline, or the wrist pins offset in pistons, or both? If neither were offset, would the above be true? If so, why?
     
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  6. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
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    I bought one new in 63. Great little car. Kid around the corner had a 62 with the 4 bbl and 4 speed. Pretty quick for what it was at the time. Mine was tough on timing chains.
     
  7. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 23,731

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    read the link above provided by blowby - unique motor but, has it's problems - have had rides in one like RichFox mentions : with 4 barrel carb & 4 speed trans - yep, pretty damn quick - but, shifter and transaxle were weak
     
  8. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,564

    khead47
    Member

    M/T knew a lot about them. On the salt or at the drags.
     
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  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,960

    squirrel
    Member

    It's just the nature of how a reciprocating mechanism works. When the piston is near the top, the wristpin is moving more in line with the connecting rod, then when the piston is near the bottom. Make some sketches, see if you can see it.
     
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  10. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,775

    bchctybob
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    Are you talking the whole car or just an engine? What year? Is it the 4 barrel carb version, stick or automatic?


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  11. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
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  12. I have a 4 door tempest in the hoard 4 cyl rope driveshaft and three speed transaxle. looks kinda like a corvair.
     
  13. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,112

    blowby
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    from Nicasio Ca

    So that rope drive was a solid flexible shaft that was curved when installed? And spun at engine RPM? Wild!
     
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  14. Critical Mass
    Joined: Aug 3, 2008
    Posts: 144

    Critical Mass
    Member

    Old Wolf, the '61-'63 Pontiac Tempest, Olds F85, and Buick Special shared their platform with the Corvair. The floor pan was designed to be used with the engine either in front or at the rear. The Tempest transaxle WAS a Corvair unit- that's why the clutch (or torque converter) hung off the back of the trans.
     
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  15. Being a died in the wool Pontiac fan, I'd love to build a 1 passenger modified around the Pontiac 4. I'd use a 61-63 bellhousing to accept a modern manual trans [I'd prolly use a T-5] and keep the car a feather weight.
     
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  16. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 4,859

    wvenfield
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    It's a Pontiac. It should be saved.
     
  17. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 524

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    Different is fun!!!:):):) ( and traditional )Save it.
     
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  18. Model A Gomez
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,103

    Model A Gomez
    Member

    Nice little engine, my parents had a 63 Tempest with one in it and I drove it as a kid. Half of a 389, heads, pistons, rods and other parts are shared. My older brother ran one in an X/FD in the mid 60's.
     

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  19. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
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    Now I'm wondering what do I put it in. Hmmm... . I'm thinking a belly tanker.
     
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  20. I also have two of those slant 4 international scout engines. 1/2 of a 304.
     
  21. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,382

    greybeard360
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    A friend of mine used one in a Chevy ll with a Super T10 behind it to run IHRA formula 4 hot rod class. It had a ram air 4 head ' home made tunnel ram with 2, 500 cfm Holley 2 bbls, roller cam, Carrillo rods.... Lots of goodies. He held the record at 13.09 up until IHRA went away. Not bad for a car that the class record was 15.50 when he went to his first race with it. That record didn't stand long.
     
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  22. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
    Member

    Bought the intake today and will pull the engine. Bringing a random 4 banger in for a core and hope to get it for 225. Means leaving the generator, but,meh. Looks to have a new starter. I'll get pictures tomorrow. Figured if worse came to worse, I saved a rare part.
     

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  23. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,578

    carbking
    Member

    Standard carburetion was a single Rochester B.

    Optional carburetion was a single Rochester 4G (about 375 CFM).

    SD version carburetion was a single Carter AFB 625 CFM (which was way too much for the street, I had one!).

    Jon.
     
  24. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,356

    flatford39
    Member

    I had know idea...thank you.
     
  25. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,543

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    My folks got a 63 4-door with auto. It was slow (half a goat is just a BBQ) but it was all I had to drive, if they let me. I always wanted a 2 door 63, but with a 389, 4spd and live axle, a steerable SD sort of car. That would have been my post high school hot rod. But then the Army came calling...
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020 at 5:45 AM
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  26. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,056

    Model A Vette
    Member

    The Tempest transaxle was similar to the Corvair but it was not the same. It had a larger ring gear and '63 V8s had four spider gears, a weak point in the two spider gear Corvair transaxle.
     
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  27. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,898

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My roommate in trade school had a 62 that he never had any engine trouble with but he had hung the front crossmember up on a railroad crossing one night and did a bunch of damage that the repair shop had a hard time getting fixed right and they went though several of those flexible driveshafts before he finally got one that worked smooth.
     
  28. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,097

    southcross2631
    Member

    I worked a Pontiac dealer when I was in high school and the dealer ship hated have to take them in on trade. They were hard to sell new much less when they were 5 years old.
    The people that drove them were the ones who bought the rubber belt 6 cylinder tempests.
    I liked because they were different and really well balanced and good in the snow. Not enough power to spin the tires.
     
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  29. TheSteamDoc
    Joined: Jul 14, 2018
    Posts: 66

    TheSteamDoc
    Member

    I wanted the engine,but, didn't have a place to put. I'm kicking myself now for it. I'm just glad I saved the intake. If anyone around Jacksonville FL wants it, just PM me and I'll fill you in.
     
  30. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
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    Old Bonneville pic. Pontiac Four with home made head upload_2020-1-19_20-42-43.jpeg
     
    bchctybob, egads, FlynBrian and 2 others like this.

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