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Poly bushings....Death squeak!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bonez, May 25, 2012.

  1. bonez
    Joined: Jul 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,493

    bonez
    Member
    from Slow lane

    How do i stop my poly bushings from squeaking? w/out removing them from the arms that is.
    Theyre all pretty much new, and i greased the fuck outta them b4 install in september.
    Its a project car that i only drive locally around town so i make a lot of stops in traffic n such, and everytime i start moving, or stop, or turn.... i hear this fuckin squeaks from the rear suspension. Saying its annoying its an understatement. Sounds like the car is breaking in half! LOL
     
  2. fatboys69
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 276

    fatboys69
    Member
    from Tennessee

    GOOD LUCK !!! Talked to one of the guys at RadRides by Troy early this year and he said they have gone back to using rubber bushings for that same reason, the DAMN SQUEEKS !!!
     
  3. Good luck with that........I tried everything and the squeaks still returned.Solution...dump um!
     
  4. Slick Willy
    Joined: Aug 3, 2008
    Posts: 3,006

    Slick Willy
    Member

    Give em a cracker!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Sorry, too easy.

    Its tough if theyve been in for a while and have started to "polish" where they have movement. Kinda trial and error with different sprays
     
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  5. try to drill and tap holes for grease fittings into the suspension arms.....the only down side to this is that you may have to do a little disassembly to accomplish this.....just an idea.
     
  6. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,842

    Truckedup
    Member

    You have the ones with grease fittings? I installed the black ones from Energy Suspension in an O/T G body El Camino using the grease that came with them. No grease fittings,but they didn't squeak....until one bushing got loose in the upper control arm...Fixed it,no problem.
    Too bad urethane bushing can be squeaky because they are way better than the usual shit quality rubber bushings available.
     
  7. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,947

    gas pumper
    Member

    They usta come with a white silicon grease, that always worked for me, never had a squeek. I've been using them for years without an issue.
     
  8. Turn up the radio
     
  9. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,912

    need louvers ?
    Member


    Exactly what I was going to say! Slop two tons of the clear silicone stuff on all surfaces at assembly and you'll never here them.
     
  10. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

  11. Just for future reference, some companies offer Poly-Graphite bushings which are polyurethane bushings with graphite in them to keep them from squeeking.
    (I feel your pain, I have squeeky bushings in my Impala.)
     
  12. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    Some Energy bushings are manufactured with grease fittings. While Energy "recomends" their own lube, petroleum grease can be used. Unlike ordinary rubber based bushings, urethane is not degraded by exposure to petroleum grease/oil. Some posts on the internet say that marine grease works better than ordinary chassis grease, but I can't say from experience whether that's the case.

    Black energy bushings are less likely to squeak, but in more cases than not they will end up squeaking to some degree anyway.
     
  13. JEM
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,041

    JEM
    Member

    Let's remember one thing: in a bonded-rubber bushing it's the rubber that twists between the inner and outer shell. The rubber is the pivot. Nothing slides, nothing rotates. This is why rubber suspension bushings must be snugged when the suspension's at normal ride height - you want to ensure the bushing is in its neutral position most of the time, and that the rotational travel is roughly even in both directions from neutral.

    Urethane bushings (well, all but a very few) are not flexible enough to do this, so they rotate on their inner sleeve. This is bad. They will squeak, they will gall and egg-out and can cold-flow. I have NEVER in thirty years seen a case where a urethane bushing subject to wear will outlast an OE-type Silenbloc or equivalent bonded-rubber bushing.

    As far as I'm concerned, for something like a rotating suspension pivot urethane's bad juju.

    Urethane? Sway bar brackets 'cause they're easily lubricated and rubber wears there anyway. Track cars if you must because noise doesn't matter and they (should) get regular inspection (though it's kind of a quick-n-dirty alternative to a spherical bearing or even Delrin.) Sway-bar end links and body mounts where the bushing doesn't rotate.
     
  14. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    Most aftermarket urethane bushings are hard and can't flex enough to work like OEM bushings. With softer urethane that is possible. Used that way, urethane is WAY more durable than production bushings. Few aftermarket bushing makers offer those, and they are available for a relatively small number of applications. The reason manufacturers stay away from urethane is because it has bad NVH(noise/vibration/harshness) properties. To one degree or another, standard rubber bushings aren't really rubber. Like urethane, natural rubber has less than ideal NVH properties. Production bushings are typically a blend of natural rubber, synthetic rubber(s), and additives. Natural rubber is more durable than the hybrid blends. So, the blend ends up being a compromise between durability and NVH.
     
  15. I'm moving away from poly bushings on suspension for a few reasons. Squeaking is just one of them.

    For air spring cars and trucks, you have such a range of motion and long dwell times at the extremes that rubber just doesn't cut it. I personally have switched to needle roller bearings!

    Petroleum grease will work but does not lubricate the same as the synthetic pearl jam. And it seems to me we get accelerated wear on petro greased bushings over just about everything.
     
  16. fsae0607
    Joined: Apr 3, 2012
    Posts: 870

    fsae0607
    Member

    Have poly bushings on my Olds. I actually like the squeak! Am I weird?:confused:
     
  17. Dog Dish Deluxe
    Joined: Dec 23, 2011
    Posts: 778

    Dog Dish Deluxe
    BANNED
    from MO.

    I just put some in the rear of my car the other day and used the silicone grease and they are fine. Getting ready to do the front now. I'd much rather have a squeak than squishy stock POS rubber ones. It's a trade off. The ride is SOOOO much better now.
     
  18. Hmmm, I've always used the black ones from Energy and never had a squeak problem in 15+ years (stock suspension, personal and customers cars).
     
  19. Mojo
    Joined: Jul 23, 2002
    Posts: 1,837

    Mojo
    Member

    Silicon spray will make them quiet for a short while. I had them on a g-body chevy, they were quiet for 3 months, then things got slightly more loose (settled in?), and they started squeaking. A few shots of silicone spray would make them be quiet for a few weeks at a time.

    I have some midolyne bushings in a ford, they were quiet for a couple of years, and then they literally fell apart. Next time around, i'm going with rubber. I like how tight plastics make the car feel, but the noise maintenance isn't worth it.
     
  20. wingman9
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingman9
    Member
    from left coast

    Yes.
     
  21. bonez
    Joined: Jul 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,493

    bonez
    Member
    from Slow lane

    Well, im actually gonna tear it all down anyway in a few weeks, a month to swap the air stuff with hydraulics, so i might even do that....or buy rubber ones!

    Ahah, thats what i actualy do LOL

    I used a lot of that b4 mountin them, and i mean A LOT!

    This is rather intresting. Im gonna look into it.
    I honetly had a thought about this, and came to the conclusion that the car goin from slammed to ride heght a couple times a day caused the grease to wear prematurley. Am i right?
    Someone said that rubber ones are better than poly for bags/hydros. True?
    cause if so its not gonna cost me much to swap the rear ones. if not true i'll pop'em out and mount'em on my new arms w/ new grease.

    THANX ALL!
     
  22. I had some that were machined or cast with spiral and crosses groves so that a grease fitting actually could supply grease. No pictures but they were from energy suspension.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  23. bonez
    Joined: Jul 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,493

    bonez
    Member
    from Slow lane

    Mine have machined grooves as well. They are SuperPro brand. Apparently the only brand making aftermarket bushings for old euro Fords. they are Australian.
     
  24. Bonez, My Impala has Hydraulics and my front A-arm bushings squeek. What's really weird is they squeek worse when I first get it out, and once I drive it for a while the squeek gets much quieter. Good luck!
     
  25. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member

    Herb Adams - highly respected suspension engineer and author of the book 'Chassis Engineering' had the following comment to make about urethane bushing: "They look great on the shelf in the parts store". Polyurethane bushings have no rotational or torsional shear but most suspension is designed from the factory to use bushings that have exactly that characteristic.

    Here is some information from the 'net:

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Polyurethane bushings: [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Polyurethane (or 'poly' or 'plastic') bushings are popular, as they noticeably 'tighten up' the suspension, and the aftermarket arms look cool, but most purchasers to not understand how they work, or the problems they create. This is an old issue, but the recent popularity of poly-equipped aftermarket control arms has drowned out the proven drawbacks of this material, including stiction, binding, squeaking, harshness, and need for regular greasing. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Poly is used in place of the rubber portion of the factory bushings. Unlike the rubber bushings, they are not bonded to the inner and outer sleeve, and movement of the control arm will cause the internal surfaces of the sleeves and bushing to slide to accommodate the shearing forces. The two main issues:[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stiction (Static Friction): Under light loads, they may squeak as the arm moves. Regular greasing reduces the squeaking, but under high loads, especially cornering on uneven pavement, the "sticky" properties of polyurethane causes the plastic to "grab" the steel liner, adding harshness to the ride, as the steel sleeves can't slide smoothly over the poly bushing surfaces. At worst, when the suspension then cannot move as designed, the handling of the car will be affected and this can create unexpected and dangerous oversteer.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Binding: To complicate matters, the trailing arm type rear suspension in the late model f-body cars has bushings that flex or 'deflect' as a normal and required part of their function. As the solid 'live' axle moves to comply with an uneven surface, it (and the LCA mounting points) rotate in relation to the chassis. [/FONT]

    1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The factory rubber bushings in the lower control arms accommodate this rotation/twist by design; [/FONT]
    2. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Poly bushings force the lower control arms to twist. [/FONT]
    3. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tubular or boxed control arms - with poly bushings - force the LCA mounting brackets on the chassis and axle to bend; [/FONT]
    4. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now that the car relies on twisting metal for suspension, it may at times bind, as the axle cannot move smoothly comply with bumps. The resulting oversteer condition can result in loss of control on high speed corners - not what you want in a high-power rear-drive car. [/FONT]
    5. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Subframe connectors (SFCs), added to brace the chassis, reinforce the forward LCA mounting points, but the twisting force is still there on the arms and rear mounts; poly bushings may seen to ride firmer after the addition of SFCs due to the more solid mounting of the LCAs. [/FONT]
    6. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Even for lower speed handling, the poly bushings increase the rear roll stiffness - something you should be tuning with the spring rates and sway bars. [/FONT]
    7. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Greasing the poly bushings does not help this issue. [/FONT]
     
  26. bonez
    Joined: Jul 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,493

    bonez
    Member
    from Slow lane

    Thanx Weasel, after readin that i can explain why the fwd bushing on the lower arm popped out 2 times! not totally out, but enuff to notice it. And i was under the impression that the ride wasnt that much better than w/ the old ones, but i accused the old shocks of the bad ride.....
    gonna buy good ol'rubber ones now, they are like a 1/3 in price as well.....fuckin expensive mistake i guess.

    On a note. Front seems to be ok, no squeaking or strange behaviour at all.

    TNT, they made no noise AT ALL for a few months, i guess if always greased they are no problem, but screw that! I would have to check'em more often than i check my engine oil!
    And thanx :)
     
  27. RJP
    Joined: Oct 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,086

    RJP
    Member
    from PNW

    years ago AMC made some 'warranty grease' that got rid of squeaks while the car was under warranty. blue-green in color. every garage in Kenosha had at least two bags of the stuff.
     
  28. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,994

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Chain lube in an aerosol can. Eventually they will wear in and the squeek should go away but until them chain lube should help you out a bunch.
     

  29. I mean each time I drive the car. Its really weird, it squeeks bad the first 10-15 minutes of riding and then gets much quieter. Its like they warm up and quiet down a good bit. I have been considering switching to the poly-graphite bushings because a friend used them in a Cutlass and they never squeeked.
    I do highly reccomend the polyurethane Sway-bar end-link bushings on a car with hydraulics. When I ran the swaybar on the front of my '63 it would tear up a set of oem style rubber end-link bushings in a week (lots of 3-wheeling), but I switched to the poly ones and they never even showed a sign of wear.
     
  30. I like them for certain applications. Leaf springs, sway bars, front control arms that have pivots inline and one plane of motion, body mount bushings.

    I don't like them in any any solid rear axle that needs to articulate and That's most of them.
    IRS with struts on a fwd car like them there but that's not to be talked about.
     

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