Ok, I've worked on points ignition for most of my life and THINK I understand how it works. I have a distributor cap that has a small wire soldered to all four spark plug posts. It's a cap for my '52 Beetle, kind of hard to find. MY thinking says the engine won't run, because all cylinders would fire each time the points open. Why would someone have done this? I found it at a flea market. any ideas??
Well if it was a harley davidson or any theher twin for that mater it would work because the cylinders fire 180 out so one would fire on intake and one on exhaust. The only way it can work on the Volkswagon is if it is firing two cyliners are once, then two cylinders would be on intake and two on exhaust. Look at your firing order and see if it is firing 2 cylinders at a tiime, I have head of engines than do that I just can't think of what they are and if Volkswagon is one of them.
You are right it won't run. I can only guess someone built a 1 cylinder engine and used a VW distributor and jimmied the cap.
Yup, I know all about Samba. I think this is a basic ignition question, certainly old enough for this forum. VW's do not fire two at a time, and I think Rusty is correct. Just wanted someone else's opinion.
anti-theft cap ? less obvious than removing the rotor? (non) Plymouth troubleshooting test trick? might show spark at a plug in air but still not run http://digital.library.louisville.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/royal/id/14125/rec/6307
My curiosity makes me want to see a pic of what someone has done. Actually the newer VWs do fire 2 at a time. Made me nuts the first time I had to change the sparkplug wires.
Actually Harley Davidson engines do not fire 180 degrees apart.Both rods are on the same crank pin and as a result the the firing sequence is.... A piston fires. The next piston fires at 315 degrees. There is a 405-degree gap. A piston fires. The next piston fires at 315 degrees. There is a 405-degree gap. Its this sequence that give the engine it's distinctive sound.
He OBVIOUSLY had mistaken a H-D for a Citroën 2CV, which DOES fire 180º opposite. Easy mistake, no embarrassment. Cosmo
Really strange. At first glance, you'd think it would fire all 4 plugs every 90º of distributor rotation, but in reality it's gonna fire the plug with the least resistance every 90º. Which plug? Who knows? Spark plugs aren't predictable voltage dividers. Bob
i think timberlake is right anti theft or prank to kill the motor ,drove bug in school hood with no lock they love to cross the wires or pencil mark on cap but the wire that would be hard to spot
my initial thought (before you indicated that the wire is soldered on and only .06 would be that the wire was there to aid in the "making" of the cap? my thinking was that the wire would be used to attached to some sort of fixture to align the posts during install and that the wire was then to be broken out before install??
i'm in the "test failure part" club. there's no need for alignment fixtures to hold the terminals when the cap is made; they're inserted into the mold before the plastic is injected, and machined down afterward. or, it could be an elaborate prank part made by a VW guy. great way to teach proper troubleshooting procedure... who would think to pull two spark plug wires at once to see if they BOTH had spark?
I'm with the prankster, or anti theft idea..... I'd like to see how long it would take someone to find that "no-start" fix . Maybe it was one of the gimmicks they use for those trouble shooting competitions...... 4TTRUK
Yep, a prank that a lot more effort than the normal pencil tracks. A great thing to stick on a guy's bug when he is at an after game school dance hustling the hot friend of his sister. No wait, that was a Nash Metropolitan ragtop and some clown came in and handed my rotor in the middle of the dance and actually lived to tell about it.
i think for training,, just think if you put a old sun scope on a set up like, you see a lot of strange stuff, 1 vote for training aid
I agree that this was modified for some who knows what purpose and it won't run as is on your VW. Of course you could just take it out most likely. I know that BBT in Belgium has those early 25HP style caps available (or at least did recently)
The newer Ford Duratec 4 cyl that I set up w/aftermarket ign, fires two at a time, I would like to understand why as well.
I hope that was a joke, even the littlest VW 25 HP motor had a bore of almost 3" - much larger than the dist cap internal terminals
That's OK Hotroddon, I can take a ball bustin'. I found this cap at a flea market, can easily take the wire off. Just wanted to hear some theories. As for asking on Samba, I hang out there at times. Most answers to questions are answered with statements like " I have 12 NOS ones of them and none of them are for sale." I'm beginning to think Vintage VW guys are 356 owners in training.
The pic is a little blurry, but it Looks to me like somebody went to some effort to fabricate and install that jumper wire. The motive could have been somewhere between revenge to noble. http://www.apa.ca/newsitem.asp?id=441 "The cost to check the vehicle and tighten a loose battery cable ranged from zero to $2,400." "Twenty-two repair shops failed the APA test. Among them, ten charged for unnecessary work to replace parts on the APA`s test vehicle, or recommended unnecessary work. These services included a new battery (seven times), a new starter, suspension struts, an unnecessary brake service, and replacing the spark plugs. A variety of unnecessary minor services were recommended, including power steering fluid on the Malibu (there is none, the power steering is electric) and transmission fluid (it’s sealed). The APA did not consider the fluid recommendations in its tally of unnecessary repairs."
I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the main benefits to a "wasted spark" setup are cost and packaging. It lets you fire 4 cylinders with 2 coils. The spark that happens on the exhaust stroke doesn't hurt anything. It happens in rarefied air, which has less insulative value, so it doesn't take that many volts to jump the gap. An interesting tidbit: In some V-6 and V-8 engine Fords with the waste spark system, Ford saved a small amount of money per car by specifying different spark plugs for each bank. The spark jumps from ground to center on one bank, and from center to ground on the other bank. Since only one of the electrodes on each plug will wear quickly, Ford put platinum on that single electrode and left the other one plain. One bank had platinum on the center and one bank had platinum on the ground. So if you replace plugs in a car like that, it's best to use double-platinum, unless you want to figure out which bank got which electrode from the factory.
Where did I bust your balls? Man, i was just trying to help ..... and yeah the classic VW guys are hoarders for sure
The Jalopy Journal
