Technical Please school me on antifreeze.

Well, this thread took on a life of its own. The two who thought this a waste of bandwidth are now eating their hats, haha.
Thanks for the great input guys, they say there's no such thing as a dumb question, and I've got my answers.

 

Speaking of % antifreeze a radiator hydrometer will give you the temp you are protected to, and you can read the % off Winduptoy's handy chart. Just a way to figure out what % coolant you have for those who are more concerned with cooling ability than protection from freezing .

 

talk to your buddy. what ever is in it, just make sure you use a compatible filler. color doesn't matter except for green. Honda and VW use pink, Volvo and BMW use blue. "multi brand" is usually some form of yellow, but so is Ford.
OAT/HOAT and standard ethylene glycol is a bad mix. like, don't mix green with VW pink etc.
to my understanding and in my experience, most dex-cool derivatives are compatible (G05, etc.) they just have different corrosive protection properties.

i started as a GM tech in 1990 and today i work on all make/models.

to date, neglected Dex-cool (original formulation) has been the greatest mess ever. clogged radiators and the like. there's a lot of debate on whether its the coolant or gasket design that leads to intake gasket failure (i say gasket design), but they ALL fail on the 2.8, 4.3/5.0/5.7 and 3.1/3.4/3.8 and we do a lot of manifold repair for corrosive damage around the water ports because of the coolant. fresh coolant and Fel-Pro gaskets are the fix. but that has nothing to do with your hudson.

 

What about this? On trademe for $126 or see article in December petrol head.

 

LOL...not sure I want to know why anyone would pay 126 bucks for a gallon of coolant.

 

It is waterless = causes no corrosion and does not boil until it's VERY hot. Downside is that it has a lower cooling capacity than common water based coolant.

 

Great thread. I have always used green trad coolant except on a couple GM dailies. Here in a climate where it can get cold OR hot, we just test it to make sure the mix is right. Never got the pre-mix thing, paying a premium for added water! But, did buy some on a road trip where I was away from a water source and did not want to end up with too much coolant in the mix.

 

NZ dollar is worth less than US, plus overseas freight, plus GST (goods and services tax - on most things in NZ). - thats how it is here.

 

I keep forgetting to go pick up a copy, I'll do that first thing in the morning.

I also haven't been to see my buddy, and ask what the blue stuff is, he's recladding his shed, and I'm to busy to offer to help, so I'm staying away till he's done.

 

Oh go on, clad a shed for an old mate. Half a day won't hurt.

 

Rusty, I was just to busy that week, and my customers can be very demanding.
I did get to ask him what the brand name of the blue stuff was, and he said he didn't know!

 

Perhaps he would've remembered blue stuff name if you helped him re-clad the shed

Glen.

 

Tectaloy make a good premium mixer for down -under. '90'. Getting premix is paying for water, as already stated here. And another vote here for 'Don't mix 'em'.
Be sure to clean the stuff off yer hands with water. I'd even consider gloves. At least one ingredient had (has) some amount of mutagenic quality. Not in a great %, but don't tempt fate. I used to make coolant, I forget the ingredients now, but it's kinda caustic- and toxic. Dispose carefully when eventually it's gotta go.
I used to run a Cleveland and you had to run good coolant. Cheap/Premix made the car run hot.

 

O.M.G. There are behavior police even down under ? ? ? ? ?

 

Mate there are fekkin' thought police down under. I just looked at my last batch of 2008? Tectaloy 90 & it is 369g/l glycol. Still seems perfect. Recommended 3 yr/40,000km.

 

"Light" beer is made the same way. No thanks

 

WOW! Lots of good tech in this thread.
Here's a short story of what just happened to me lately with the '32.

I have aluminum heads, intake, water pump and radiator (SBC). The radiator leaked a little bit since it was new, so I use a little Bar's stop leak in it every once in a while. (another sad story for another time).

Every time it gets below freezing in the garage the contraction of the coolant in the radiator sucks the plug in and it leaves a little puddle. Also, if I run it a little too hard (at any temp) before it gets warmed up, it squirts a little and the belt driven fan blows it all over. If I let it warm up first it doesn't leak. I learned to live with it. (sorry, long story)

Now for the problem. I was out in New Mexico last fall (7200 ft.elevation) and it got down to 0*, so I put a little more antifreeze in to top it off and get it down past the freeze zone. I checked it and it was good for about -25*. Good enough - I thought.

Well, in a couple of weeks I loaded up and went to FL. for the winter (50 ft. elevation). The kids had given me a bug screen for the Hot Rod at Christmas. Thanks Kidos! So, I got it on the other day and I noticed it ran about 5*-10* hotter than it did before.

I couldn't believe it! No one else has that problem! It always ran about 180* before. Even in stop and go traffic it would only go up to about 195* maybe 200*. Now it runs about 185*-190* in normal traffic and easily goes past 200*.

I was at a cruise-in the other night and it was about 60* out. While I was looking for a place to park, I happened to look down at the temp gauge and it was at 210*. YIKES!

It didn't puke or anything it just ran hotter than usual, so I hurried to park. This is NOT NORMAL! I thought the gauge went south on me or the thermostat stuck or something.

So, today I thought I'd look into it. I drained the antifreeze into a pan and everything looked OK (no crud), so I filled it back up with straight water out of the garden hose to flush it out and drove around a while. To my surprise, it ran normal (180*). Bug screen and all! It was about 78* out and I couldn't get it over 195* even sitting at an idle.

I checked the anti-freeze in the bucket with my little $1, 5-ball tester and it was still at -25*. So, I decided to dilute the mix with some more water to get it up to about 0* so it has some freeze protection, pump lube and corrosion protection. I poured it back in the radiator and it ran perfect just like with water!

It turns out it was the over use of straight antifreeze from topping it off every time when it would leak out a little, and so it doesn't seem to run as cool with that much antifreeze protection. BTW- It says on the jug that a 50% mix is good down to -34*.

I think I'm running about 75% clear DI-hydrogen oxide to 25% yellow ethylene-glycol, out of a blue polypropylene jug, in a silver alunimum radiator, and a red cast iron block, in a black silk and polyester resin '32, or something like that... LOL.

But today, it's working!!!

 

I don't live down under so what I have to say may not count for anything at all. Up here all antifreeze is coolant and unless you are getting it from the creek or a hose all coolant is antifreeze. You can buy it premixed or otherwise.

There is an exception to the rule, the performance industry has products like what is called "Water Wetter" that is used to aid in cooling.

All antifreeze ( unless you have found some off brand) has corrosion inhibitors, and pretty much all of it has some sort of water pump lubricant, the real down side to running just water is that it does not lubricate your water pump.

The color of antifreeze varies from one manufacturer to the next and not all is compatible with the other. it depends on the chemical makeup of it. They actually make different antifreezes here for late model engines.

I don't know about down under but here in the states it has to say on the label what it is made from, as in Ethylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol, or Glycerol for example. Each has its own shelf life and properties and no one can tell you much without knowing what it is. These days there are a lot of other formulas that are supposed to be environmentally safe, antifreeze is poison.

The only thing sold here that is purely antifreeze and not coolant/antifreeze is the stuff that you use to winterize your camper.

 

There are people here who don't even run radiators. Believe it.

 

"There are people here who don't even run radiators. Believe it."
well, yeah....i had this old vw....

 

when coolant (the mix that does everything) appeared down here we could opt out and use water and all the other additives were available to mix in if you needed. You can still buy anti freeze separate if you shop around, some of the other stuff is a bit harder to get (white oil etc) or the do all coolant. Sound like you guys up there refer to coolant as antifreeze? Anti freeze down here sounds like your camper stuff, but all it does is stop freezing.

 

The name is implied I think. Some folks call it antifreeze and others call it coolant. We know by the conversation if they are talking about campers or cars.

You can buy water pump lubricant if you know where to look and are not afraid to take the dummy at the parts counter by the hand. New cars don't come filled with water here and most autoparts houses are geared toward late model cars.

For cars that run water, rare in this part of the country, I always suggest a sacrificial cathode be introduced into the system. It gives the water something to dine on instead of the intake block and radiator. What people don't understand is that water is a gluttonous pig, the cleaner it is the more it wants to eat. I laugh when I see the fellas suggesting distilled or dionized water. The less minerals your water has the more caustic it becomes, dionized water will actually eat through a copper pipe, and you do not want to get it in your eye. LOL

 

An interesting bit of trivia, the classic green ethylene glycol type antifreeze actually requires the addition of water (50/50 is the typical mix) to reach the standard freeze protection of negative -34F below zero. Straight glycol will freeze around plus +20F above zero.

 

You're too old school. Every coolant manufacturer and cooling system engineer will tell you, use deionized water. When you buy 50/50 premix coolant it is mixed with deionized water. There are additives in the coolant to protect those copper surfaces.

Minerals in the water will plate out on the surfaces of the cooling system causing scale formation. Scale makes a very effective insulation, greatly reducing the heat transfer properties of a system. When the block can't shed heat to the coolant heat builds up in everything. The pistons get hot and expand and start making contact with the cylinders, resulting in at best polishing of the bores, at worst adhesive wear (galling, transfer of metal from one surface to another). Piston rings loose tension and relax, resulting in increased blow by, and/or oil consumption. That results in deposit buildup, which makes the situation worse like a snow ball rolling down hill picking up snow as it goes. The blow-by causes oxidation and nitration of the oil, leading to varnish plating out on the surfaces and sludge building up in the valley and on top of the heads, reducing flow of the oil and more heat buildup. And the driver says "it never over heated". Right, you mean the gauge never showed it getting hot, because the heat never made it from the block to the coolant.

 

I thought we sacrificed Anodes, not Cathodes.

 

Bringing this old thread up because for the last 4 years I switched over to propylene glycol from ethylene glycol in an older driver truck with a 351W injected engine. This has been an experiment to check out long range issues. One of the reason for switching was an old thread here on the HAMB.

The engine has always had a small seep due to a previous owner breaking off an intake manifold stud. So one of the objectives was to see if the propylene would reduce the leakage.

As far as I can tell from this singular test, is that the propylene works as well as the ethylene. The leakage is about the same if not a little better. The antifreeze has stayed clean for the four years and at this point I have no plans to change it out.

The propylene is a little more expensive and more difficult to source. Right now the only convenient store that carries it is Napa for around $17 gallon.

One thing I ran in this truck is water pump lubricant, but then have always done that.

Another coolant lesson, though not from this truck test, is not to use any of that fancy ceramic leak stopper. (Or the metallic stuff either). Only use the compressed tablets that look like sawdust. The ceramic stuff will tear up the water pump bearings. We are zero to four right now on the ceramic or metallic crap.

 

Don't drink it.

 

Since the other thread got closed, I’ll share this here. If your coolant gets really nasty and you are ready to generate gallons and gallons of waste, you can simply add a coolant filter. Slap it on there and run it for a week or so. I did this on my beloved OT Jeep XJ. Then it’s simply a drain & fill. You can then remove the filter it or leave it on, I don’t care . I won’t comment on what coolant you should fill it with, we all our recipes lol

 

Nothing like the smell of Glycol and AV gas in the morning.

 

Well I use to run a steam plant and all we ever used was soft water...We had 0ur own Demineralizers and a guy put D-water in a aluminum motor car and it ate a hole in the block in 4 hours....Just my take....