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Please help this idiot start the 302 jim.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by iwanaflattie, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Hello I need help starting my 302 jimmy outside the truck.
    I have it on a little trailer,and its held by tied downs on every corner so it wont tip.
    Also have the cherry picker holding it by the head bolts so it wont go nowhere.
    -fire extinguisher.check
    -12v battery.check
    -negative(ground)side of battery to engine block.check
    -positive side of battery to starter main bolt.check
    -gas to carburetor.check
    -negative coil wire to distributor.check
    -12v wire to ballast resistor check
    -12v ballast resistor to +side of coil.check
    -12vballast resistor to starter.check
    -find TDC;check
    -plug wires with correct firing order.153642.check
    note:every time I find TDC,I get the rotor pointing like the diagram below,is this wrong????
    Can you guys draw a quick diagram for me please?
    Do I gotta mess with the choke???
    Am I missing something else???
    The engine cranks,sucks air and gas from the carburetor but dont seem to spark???
    Ideas please????
     

    Attached Files:

  2. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    If this is what I think it is, you are shorting all ignition power to the starter. I would fire it without a resistor. A short run won't hurt the coil. Put power direct from battery + to coil +. Be able to disconnect quickly, easily.
     
  3. flying53gmc
    Joined: Mar 2, 2005
    Posts: 357

    flying53gmc
    Member
    from M-boro, TN

    Those gmc's use to be positive ground but I think it should work the way you wired it.
     
  4. The battery,starter and cables get hot,so maybe Iam doing it backwards????
    would it be 12v positive ground???
     

  5. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    I never ran one positive ground.

    There is nowhere on the starter that I can think of that you should attach a wire from the resistor to. A wire FROM the resistor goes ONLY to the coil. The other end of the resistor gets +12.
     
  6. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,562

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Polarity doesn't matter, because the starter is series wound, so will turn the same direction whether positive or negative ground.

    Have you checked for spark at the plugs? Also, make sure that your distributor is not 180 out. The position of the rotor looks good, as long as #1 cylinder is at the top of the compression stroke.

    The only time you'd have a wire from the starter to the ballast would be if you are wiring it so that the coil gets 12 volts during cranking. Very common, but that wire needs to go to the +coil side of the ballast.
     
  7. 33-Chevy
    Joined: Nov 30, 2007
    Posts: 267

    33-Chevy
    Member

    The firing order is actually 1-5-3-6-2-4 but the way you say it is wired would not keep it from starting. Check for vacuum leaks.
     
  8. 2X, you have to check that you are on the compression stroke for #1 when it is pointing to #1. Pull the plug and crank engine, place thumb over hole when it pops, the rotor should be at #1. Take off the wire from the starter to the ballast. 2X , for short runs you do not need the ballast. What about your points? Are they set and free of arc pitting? If this does not work, get a test light and check for flashing from Neg. side of coil when cranking.
     
  9. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,918

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Where the F did you find a 302 in the first place?? I've been searching locally, nothing left around here. Send it to me, I promise I'll get it started. How bout posting a video of it running when it gets to that point?
     
  10. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Measure your voltage on the + coil terminal while cranking. If you are pulling enough current to heat the cables, battery & starter you dont have much voltage to do anything else.
     
  11. goose-em
    Joined: Aug 23, 2008
    Posts: 349

    goose-em
    Member
    from Louisiana

    How are you finding TDC? Are you sure the TDC you are finding is on the compression stroke?

    Points ignition I assume?

    Does it try to start, i.e. pop, backfire anything?

    If it is popping or backfiring then I would suggest swapping your plug wires around as it may be that you are 180 out of phase. Place #1 wire where #6 is, #6 where #1 was etc.
     
  12. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    This maybe of help with finding #1 and order,wire as shown for ign.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. I love this forum. I happen to know where some wicked speed parts are for the 302 but I cant find a 302 to put them on.
     
  14. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Some of my GMCs had a hole in the bellhousing just above the starter. And a pin in the hole that lined up with a line on the flywheel when #1 was at TDC. The thumb trick is still a good way to decide if it's TDC on compression or exhaust.
     
  15. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,682

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Remove ballast resistor from starter! 12 volts won't hurt the starter for 10 second cranks. Resistor on a high amp appliance (like a starter) is probably what's heating up the cables. Crank it on 12 volts.
    The coil, as someone suggested, is probably being robbed of voltage with the starter resistor also...
     
  16. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,562

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I doubt that he has the ballast resistor in series with the starter. If he did, there's a 0% chance that enough current would get through the ballast to turn the motor. More likely the ballast would burn out.

    Rich has the correct explanation below for how the ballast should be wired.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  17. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Ballast resistors that I am familiar with get bypassed during the start position on the key switch. The coil sees 12 volts during cranking. The current passes through the resistor after the key is placed in the ON position.
     
  18. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,774

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    How about new points and a new condenser..you didnt mention replacing them? I have seen apparently good looking points be fried..all it takes is a little crack somewhere...I dont know what the op's diagram or firing order has to do with not getting spark. You need good points, 12 volts to a known, good coil, the distributor wire to the coil has to be good and you should be good to go!
     
  19. I tried all the suggestions and still no luck.
    I will buy new points,condenser and coil ad try again.
    I found TDC first by taking the spark plug off,then cranking the engine with a ratchet by hand,and looking at the piston with a flashlight til it stopped all the way out.
    then I looked at the rotor and took note.
    Then I put my thumb on the SP hole and cranked the engine with the starter and waited till the pop scared the shit out of me,looked inside the hole and saw that the piston was all the way to the top,looked at the rotor and it was correct.
    lastly I did what richfox suggested and looked in the flywheel casing hole and rotated the engine til the stud found a mark.
    looked at the rotor and the SP hole and everything matched.
    PICTURE BELOW.
    I know the way some of you feel,you have the knowledge and parts to make this jimmy go and I cant even get it to start.
    Some idiots have all the luck huh.

    I wired the engine the same way it was wired ''R'' Bolt on the starter to one side of the resistor,this same side of the resistor had another wire to the coil.
    the other side of the resistor went to the ignition switch.
    Anyone in Vegas or Victorville area want to take a shot starting this thing??
    I buy the beer :)
     

    Attached Files:

  20. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    I showed you how to wire it in post #12.The R terminal looks dirty and how know what is does.If it works like a ford its hot only when starting and would go dirrect to coil by passing resister.So after it starts wire it any way you want.
     
  21. Dreamweaver
    Joined: Feb 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,017

    Dreamweaver
    Member

    Im in Boulder City just outside of Vegas but Death Valley is a bit far for me.

    Are you getting spark at all the plugs? Take a fresh sparkplug, pull a wire off a plug on the engine, attach said wire to the fresh plug, ground the fresh plug to the block (dont barehand it), spin the motor over with starter, plug should spark, try this with all 6 cylinders. If no spark, sounds like your points/coil could be bad.

    Report back.
     
  22. will do.i live 100 miles from vegas.
     
  23. Thank you.
    I did try to start it like you said.
    I but an alligator wire from the battery to the + on the coil.
    Will keep at it thanks.
     
  24. Dreamweaver
    Joined: Feb 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,017

    Dreamweaver
    Member

    I took at look at the pics of the engine in your album.

    If you have the sparkplug wires run like you do in the picture, you have the firing order really screwed up.

    The picture looks like it is set up as 124356, should be 153624.
     
  25. what picture?
    I changed the firing order after taking those pictures
     
  26. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Yes, it would be nice to know if you are getting spark. If No spark all the cranking in the world is not going to start it. You never did say if you got voltage readings on the coil. If you get a spark with the above test, Good. If not, further tests follow.

    First see if the coil is making spark by taking ALL the wires off the coil. Connect the - (minus) side of the coil to a ground on the engine. Plug a hi tension wire (plug wire or coil to dist cap center wire) in the center of the coil. Make sure the wire is good. Put the other end near the block about the disatance of a plug gap. Touch a +12v wire to the + terminal on the coil and take it off, just a quick touch. It should cause a spark.

    If you get a spark, connect the wire from the - coil post to the distributor. Check the wire going into the distributor. Those distributors have a nasty habit of shorting where they go into the dist housing. If it is shorted you will get a spark with this test but it will NOT spark when you crank the engine. Make sure the points are closed and touch the + terminal with a hot wire again. You should get a spark. If you do not get a spark the points are not closing or the plate they are mounted on is not grounded.
     
  27. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,427

    oldsman41
    Member

    pull the plug on number 1 and make sure your at top dead center i think your 180 out pull dizzy cap and look to see if your pointing at number one wire if not adjust the dizzy
     
  28. will do.
    my wife might stop at the autoparts later hopefully she can pick up a new coil,sparkplug wires and a new condenser and points.
    I did the test dream weaver suggested,I got no spark.
    But then I put all the wires back on the engine to give it a last crank for the day and the engine POPPED!!
    it almost start so we tried again and nothing.
    Will report back tomorrow.
     
  29. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    Thank you.
    I did try to start it like you said.
    I but an alligator wire from the battery to the + on the coil.
    Will keep at it thanks.

    The only wires you should have is from battery to resister to +coil.IF you put 12 volts to long it will not get spark you need the resister.Keep the R out of circiut.Now if firing order is right and you have gas and does,nt start.Now it maybe spark,adj points clean and new condenser.
     
  30. Deucedreamer
    Joined: Jan 11, 2010
    Posts: 542

    Deucedreamer
    Member
    from BC Canada

    I have a 6-71 blown 302 jimmy and when I first went to fire it up, I had the same trouble as you. I was a little scared since the engine was fresh and I didn't want to hurt it. My dad walked over, took one look at things quickly and said, "you're distributor is 180 degrees out". I flipped it around, hit the starter and she started right up! I agree with the others on here, turn your distributor around 180 and you should be fine. Good luck and post up some pics when you get it running.
     

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