Register now to get rid of these ads!

Planning ahead for ethanol

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by turdytoo, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. turdytoo
    Joined: May 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,560

    turdytoo
    Member

    Okay we all know that ethanol is here and going to be in even higher percentages in the future. I don't see non-ethanol being available to the point that a person can exspect to drive their car on a road trip without using ethanol. What should we do in the area of fuel pumps, carburetors and fuel lines as we build/repair/rebuild our pre-ethnol systems to make them stand a chance? Are parts for mechanical fuel pumps and carbureters, compatible with ethanol long term, available? If they are out there now how will know which are and are not?
     
  2. BOWTIE BROWN
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 3,253

    BOWTIE BROWN
    Member

    i don't have a clue, iam just worried bout gettin my ole lady to work on time at the local chevy lot.
    something to think about though.
     
  3. My understanding (so far) is this:

    If you replace ALL of the rubber fuel lines with new lines that are compatible with alcohol, you are on your way. The neoprene in some carbs is not compatible, and some plastic floats are also a problem.

    Far as hot rod parts, there are plenty of alky-burning cars running carbs out there, so as far as modding Holleys and such, it doesn't seem like that would be a huge issue.

    Original carbs, if running leather diaphragms, don't appear to have the problems that others have. Flushing out the resins that develop in fuel tanks appears to be a necessity, since alcohol-based fuels dissolve those and clog up fuel lines.

    I've been concerned about the same thing, myself. Unless Congress stops it, the EPA and the "corn-squeezins" lobby is going to make E10 the law of the land very, very soon.

    I'm sure some folks that have EXPERIENCE in changing over to be able to run E10, E15, or even E85 will chime in.
     
  4. Its gonna get interesting. On the road you never know what you'll get. The gas pumps that aren't marked hopefully are regular gas.
     

  5. guiseart
    Joined: Apr 7, 2005
    Posts: 3,872

    guiseart
    Member

    We've been running ethanol here in Kansas for years in a lot of our vehicles simply because it's more octane and cheaper... I haven't noticed any hiccups yet, but I can't speak for the seats or valves or any internal problems. Seems to be okay so far, at 15% anyway.
     
  6. Destralo Roach
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 521

    Destralo Roach
    Member

    This is one of the biggest problems in the indestry right now, if you are not running EFI, your going to have problems, on motorcycles we have to go back to the non viton tiped carb needles and I am thinking of trying to get cork for the gas caps as every thing I have found right now will expand from the Gas/Alky mix!! Keeping your carb, your gonna have problems.......Roach.
     
  7. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,595

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    the sky is falling, the sky is falling...

    been running ethanol in gas here for the last 20 years or more. No issues so far. Just maintain what you have.
     
  8. Destralo Roach
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 521

    Destralo Roach
    Member

    Well I work on this stuff for a living, and have encounterd the problems personaly, so the sky is not falling, but the rubber is expanding in bad ways.....Roach.
     
  9. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,595

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Hmmm... must be that west coast rubber. :rolleyes: Not having those issues here. The only downfall I've noticed is that the gas goes bad quicker. But no issues in motorcycles or cars. But then again I take care of the stuff. i.e. I change the rubber lines when I get something, and go over it with a fine tooth comb.
     
  10. Destralo Roach
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 521

    Destralo Roach
    Member

    Wont work well with Holly 94's, the newer carbs will work with mods, the motors run fine yes, EFI works the best, but if ya have a old flaty your going to have problems, At my work we are making custom gas caps and are having a hell of a time getting gaskets that wont expand and fall off!! All the carbs now have mettal flote needles and so forth, if the fittings have a enclosed O ring, then it is fine, like I said, open gaskets and viton tipped flote needles, you got problems, and car gas caps are not close enough to the gas to be efected like on the bikes.....Roach.
     
  11. Destralo Roach
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 521

    Destralo Roach
    Member

     
  12. wrenchin hobo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2010
    Posts: 43

    wrenchin hobo
    Member
    from Houston,TX

    There are lots of people that run e85 and manufacturers that offer parts and fuel systems that are compatable.

    I'm not sure what mechanical fuel pumps are compatable but I know there are conversion kits available to swap your carb over. Currently we have as much as 10 percent ethanol at any/all pumps here in texas and louisiana. If you're building a hot rod and are planning on using braided fuel line anyway then it's not much more money for ptfe hose. Which is much less likely to seep fuel over time making it safer to use and since common sizes used in automotive application has a burst rating of near 10,000psi you aren't likely to ever need any other fuel line for the car...ever. I've used it on 700+ rwhp late model hemi cars and we used it on all Vipers and other 1000+ hp cars at Hennessey when working there. It's not cheap but is good stuff. The fittings have to be crimped on, but most shops that sell it can crimp it after you've cut everything to fit. Here in Houston I use Hufco...guys have lots of different fittings and line sizes available and are always willing to help. Oh, and it looks better than that anodized aluminum junk that you pay 2 prices for at speed shops. And the fittings are available in ss or zinc plated steel.

    This article at popular hot rodding should give you some help as to what can and can not be used.
    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0909phr_gas_versus_e85/fuel_filters.html
    Also check this link out.
    http://www.hardcoremetalworks.com/index.php/tech_articles/gasoline_vs_e85/
    I'm not opposed to e85 as it has a higher octane rating and would be great for high compression or high boost engines. But since it's not available at every gas station it makes it harder to build a dependant car and then look around and try to find places to fill up.
    Remember at one time all these cars ran leaded gasoline and it was a pain in the balls to convert to unleaded, but hot rodders found a way. I'm convinced that we will find a way to do it again. This time we'll come out making more hp....burning more fuel, but making more power.

    my $.02

    J
     
  13. Mike Rouse
    Joined: Aug 12, 2004
    Posts: 365

    Mike Rouse
    Member

    I've been runnning 2 oz of 2 cycle marine oil for every 10 gallons of gas in my '66 250 ci chevy. The oil in the fuel leaves a coating once the gas has evaporated. Helps the valves too.
    Mike
     
  14. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,028

    carbking
    Member

    The sky may not be falling, but there certainly is a cloud!

    Most common complaints we have from prospective new customers is how to live with ethanol. Here are our recommendations:

    http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

    For those planning cross-country trips, tuning for ethanol is a little like tuning for high-altitude, a little planning pays huge dividends. Carburetors which are externally adjustable like Carter AFB's with replacable metering rods or Stromberg B series one barrel and Zenith 228 series one barrel carbs are quite useful.

    I keep a couple of different sets of metering rods in the glove box for my dual quad 390.

    Expect to have more trouble with your lawn and garden tractors, weed-eaters, etc., than with your car/truck.

    And I just detest working on lawn mower carbs.

    Jon.
     
  15. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,544

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    Since unleaded containing ethanol has been around for about 20 years, new manufactur and repop componets are generally compatible. If soft parts, hoses, kits, etc are suspect, simply put them in a can of unleaded gas with ethanol and soak for a couple of days. If they swell/distort, dont' use.

    A car that's been in use in recent years has most likely digested some ethanol. For a car that has never had ethanol, like a 'barnfind', put away before ethanol, then everything should be refurbished. The gas tank will have residue from the leaded products and the ethanol will 'clean' that gunk out, plugging up filters, pumps, and carburetor and swelling up rubber parts. Pumps, kits, tubing, etc. manufactured before the widespread use of ethanol are suspect.

    On my '29 jalopy(s) I replaced the gas tanks and lines, installed new manufactur electric and mechanical filters and pumps, didnt purchase any old stock parts that would have pre-ethanol soft parts.
     
  16. Mudslinger
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,964

    Mudslinger
    Member

    I been running it for years, not sure exactly how long. Replaced a couple of accelerator pumps when we first started using it and noticed some rubber fuel line dries up and has to be replaced. Not sure if it was cheap fuel line or the gas.
    It gives one of my engines trouble setting over the winter even with start ups. Acts like water in the tank but its all brand new, engine is higher compression than my others.
    My flathead hasnt missed a beat on it. I havent replaced anything in a couple of years now.
     
  17. slickschoppers
    Joined: Mar 15, 2007
    Posts: 160

    slickschoppers
    Member
    from Iowa

    yep.. same here.. Iowa has had it for YEARS.. no major problems.
     
  18. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,117

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    We simply pull up to the pump, fill up our tanks and pay for the gas before we drive off. They really like it when you pay before driving off............
     
  19. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 6,970

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    Haha!

    I'm not quite so sure what the big deal is either, other than the agri-political aspect of it, which is quite nauseating... but this is not the time or place for that... I've been running it in my old cars for years now as well, no problems. If you've got a car that has old rubber lines on it that are incompatible with ethanol, chances are they need to be changed by now anyway!
     
  20. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,117

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So true.

    My Stihl weedeater even drinks it.
     
  21. In Oklahoma, when E10 was introduced in 2008, there was a RASH of problems directly attributed to E10 on older cars not running right, plus LOTS of small engine fuel problems. The vast majority of small engine shops in the state will NOT warranty fuel problems involving ethanol.

    I don't run it, because we still have the CHOICE in OKlahoma between real gasoline, E10, E15, and a few places, E85. I like the power of choice, versus government edict.
     
  22. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,107

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    My lawn mower with a 3.5 hp Briggs motor was bought new in '79 loves the stuff.. Still fires up on the first pull... I took the carb apart once and washed the tank out then re-assembled with all the original parts. Runs like a dream!... :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  23. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,426

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage


    Mine (lawn tractor) seems to run real lean on the stuff..i have to pull the choke out some to keep it running..its a 18 horse 2 cyl

    Ive even tried to adjust the carb some to change that..but it just goes right back to the same choke setting to keep it running properly, and yes the carb has been rebuilt and is in great working order otherwise..read..it doesnt do this on the real stuff

    I bought new (this year) fuel line it says it right on it.
    for my Hot Rod project..

    after having it run a few gallons thru it to tune up the engine and getting it running right ..the fuel line feels like slimey gooey feeling to it..and it colapse real easy..
    wonder if i should try the fuel injection hose..you know the stuff that looks like it has a blue lining in side it?

    Im not really a fan of having shit forced down my throat either..just like some of the stupid policies of this current drummer
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  24. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,107

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    That might work......
     
  25. djust
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,230

    djust
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    I have a choice to buy or not buy for now!!
    When the choice dries up I hope my Tripower setup with Holley's on it doesn't give me to much trouble.
     
  26. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,228

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Read this:
    [​IMG]
    All you need to know. It includes chapters on engine mods, fuel system mods, etc.; also on home stills and such.

    Americans, count yourselves lucky. Many if not all of you can legally make the stuff yourselves at home, as long as you denature it: unlike some of us in other parts of the world. And isn't making your own fuel very much in the spirit of the HAMB?

    I'd love to run my projects on E96.

    That would be a cool tech thread: first building an ethanol engine, then building a still and making the fuel for it ...
     
  27. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,772

    J'st Wandering
    Member

    That is the reason that I stick with the Stromberg 97's. That new-fangled holley carburator will never work. ;)

    I have ran ethanol based gasoline in everything that I have, that includes strombergs, quadrajet, edelbrock, holley, whatever. Ran it through lawnmowers, weedeaters, and chain saws. No big deal. Move on.

    Neal
     
  28. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,772

    J'st Wandering
    Member

    Now that I think of it, I did have a problem with a fuel line on a '46 Ford collapse and needed to be replaced. But that was over 15 years ago and we did not have ethanol yet. Maybe it just got old..... :)

    Neal
     
  29. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,107

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    ... Also on home stills and such... Mmmm... Anyone ready for some down home corn liquor??? :D
     
  30. I don't think its taking off like people (the gov) expected! There was a new ethanol plant built about a 90 miles from here a few years ago and is now closed down because it was losing millions! Not to worried about it just yet!
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.