Hey guys, I'm getting ready to notch my 54 victoria and a have a few questions before I start. I got a piece of 4.5" Dia schedule 40 pipe (roughly 1/4" thick) to weld in. I was going to notch it 2 1/4" and add some 1/8" plate to the outside of each side of the frame for added support, extended out roughly 4" past the notch on each side. The frame is 3 1/2" tall and is already boxed in from the factory. Is a 2 1/4" notch too tall for a 3 1/2" frame with the added side gusset plates? I could extend the gussets about 1/2" above the top of the frame rail before I have to start cutting up the floor boards. Any constructive advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Strength and stiffness comes from the height, so make the gusset plates as tall as you can. An extra 0.5 inch added to the 1.75 will be a significant increase. Even better run a cap over the gussets on the top, in effect kind of adding a curve shape to the boxed frame top surface. Also longer length past the notch would be advised. Thicker gusset like 3/16 would also be good.
Thanks for the advice. I just decided to cut the floorboards so i could add a taller gusset, and I'll beef up the thickness also. I do think that will be the safer way to go.
I'm thinking you need to be using steel tubing instead of pipe, which I suspect is made from iron and not steel. Chris
Paul Horton makes some bitchin' pieces to do that. Take a look before you start. Even if you don't buy his, getting an idea of how he thinks in the R&Ding of his stuff (smaller angles eventually welded together) gives you an idea of how to approach your problem. Trust me, as Hans Solo likes to say. Flat strap of the proper thickness, and a lot of noodling, doodling and experimenting, and a good chop-saw and you could build the 'kick-up', as I call them, on a table and install them, no problemo.
Paul Horton has a good article in reading right now actually. Thanks for the advice. I'll probably make a few slight tweaks.
If the frame is already boxed you don't need to gusset it, just be sure and weld all around the notch and you are good to go. You can notch past the top of the frame and be Ok if you are a good welder. That pipe is way thicker then the metal it is being welded to and an arch is a very strong structure (ask the ancient Romans).
Just leave the pipe sticking out on each side and weld her up solid should be fine but never hurts to add more. If you want a little bigger notch since you allready have the floor cut just make templates out of cardboard get a local shop or buddy with a plasma cutter to cut them out then weld the sides up first then top cap. Then cut old frame out and and weld up the underside boxing plate. If you go the pipe route I'd leave at least and 1 1/2 of the stock frame above the notch
This is what I ended up with. 1/4" thk pipe welded all around, 1/8" thk plate on the sides and 1/4" plate on top. Don't think this thing is going anywhere anytime soon. Oh, and I just taught myself how to weld too. Haha.
I would have added an internal gusset 4" past each end that captures frame rails at top, bottom and notch. A little more work however it would strengthen the areas significantly either side of the notch and put much needed strength back to the frame. This are could be the Achilles heal if not done correctly. Personally I prefer a smooth radius rather than angular sections, a lot less stress and more strength with staggered joints over butt joints. Engineers down here require additional strength even though notches are frowned upon. A lengthwise slit on top and bottom that allows the gusset to slip down vertically so it can be welded to top and bottom of frame and through notch itself.
I never would have thought of an internal gusset. That's a good idea. But why do you say notches are frowned apon? How else do you lower your car this much?
Looks good. That is at least as strong, and likely stronger, than the original frame section. I think you did very well, did your homework first...the welds look good too! Congratulations! Ray
Cool thanks guys. Good to have other people's input. I'm pretty happy with it for my first time doing something like this.
The authorities, not by the people who build and modify cars. The rules and regulations we play by are pretty strict. Engineers themselves all have different opinions, great with theory but not with execution.
Arches are strong when the lower ends are restrained form being pushed outward. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8p9tWPp8v1g/S6nQAAsGljI/AAAAAAAAABc/rHN3V0x2kQw/s1600/555.jpg
True, but the loading on the arch in your link does not represent the loading that a notch on a car frame has. Not even close.
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