The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Ryan, Mar 8, 2017.
Ryan submitted a new blog post:
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Sort of interesting... This article was written in 2005, but I never published it... It just sat in my "drafts" folder. This morning, I was cleaning up and decided to let it go.
Is this article about politics?
Right on, Boss. Well written and certainly an interesting perspective. I didn't look yet, but I would like to know what engine the Germans planned to use in their T80.
I will say this about the Germans and other European auto manufactures of the day, they got a lot out of their little cubic inchers compared to the US's manufactures way of thinking.
The French and Italian engineering ideas from the teens were quickly adopted by Miller in his race cars so we know they were definitely on to something.
I also agree that hot rodding reach new heights in '52. The K&L streamliner is living proof of that. Just simple put, it is form, function, and art all rolled into fluid motion.
I guess it could be pushed that way given the times, but I'm not really a political person - publicly anyway. When I wrote this, I didn't publish it cuz I didn't think it was very well written. The point of it was supposed to be that innovation and creativity are key drivers to success - not money or brute force or... anything else...
Ironically, the T80 was powered by the same basic V12 that powered the BF109 in WWII. It was and still is a glorious motor... Sort of the Big Block Chevrolet of the war in many ways.
Also when you wrote it nick hadn't cloned it, some original parts used but over all a clone.
Now people can actually see this odd rod in the flesh!
So really your timing couldn't be better
Couple of guys in Detroit doing just that!
Although the one they built for the car was reportedly twice the horsepower of the 109 engines if the information can be believed.
Interesting and entertaining article Ryan. All politics aside I would like to see the car run to see what it really was capable of. It would certainly take some deep pockets to duplicate and run it just find out . I am sure there is a group of American Hot Rodders that pull off a recreation and make it run.
Initial thought was "damn thing won't stay on the ground". But, we'll never know. Interesting read, thanks.
After looking as it again, I'm curious on the thought of those winglets. I'm sure people smarter than me designed this car, but looks like they wouldn't be applying downward force. Did they want to car to get lift to lessen rotating friction? Seems like that would be a disastrous idea at that speed. Could be the perspective (no pun intended) or angle of the picture, but I'm really curious what these winglets were adding to the overall streamlining design of the car.
It's odd for the car looks like it belongs to the German racing period of the era while also looking all Buck Rogers futuristic at the same time. To me, it also has some precursor designs of some of the high winged Cam Am race cars.
Wild stuff. I also wonder if the German's had planned to also use nitrous in this motor since they are the ones that pioneering this h.p, boosting technology first.
Another thought and play this out. Imagine if this car ran during Nazi rule and it didn't break the record? I'd think that anyone who laid a hand on it would no longer be walking around upright.
It was an inverted v12 from the BF109. The DB603, it was increased in displacement (44.5L aka 2715 cu. in) and had its supercharger cranked up for 3,000hp of output. The drag co-efficent of the car was .18. It would have been realllllly f'n fast.
This is the truly remarkable part of the car.
Even so, we still kicked it's ass with way less power, way less budget, and just a few more years.
Great read. Well done Ryan.
How does one kick the ass of something that was never run?
I'm too busy at work today to fully research out examples for my case, but...
To put perspective in a different light, I think the argument can be made that the T-80 was ahead of the game on streamlining efforts. You don't really see cars with that advanced streamlining showing up at Bonneville until the early 50s...
(Someone is welcome to prove me wrong with examples).
Dang, that is a serious machine. Certainly a slippery shape for sure. I wonder if those winglets were designed to break away any drag on the rear of car. In other words, to have the wind go around it instead of over it. Just a thought.
It would be incredible if someone could unearth wind tunnel testing of this car. I'd assume footage existed at one time for Hitler seemed to want all of his "crowning" achievements documented.
I wonder if any of these engineers ever considered stuffing one of their jet engines into this slippery car or would that have disqualified them from land speed trials of the day?
Assumptions aside, I got sort of scared when I saw you guys mention the political side of this and went back and read it with that hat on. I had no political thoughts (other than Nazis suck) when I wrote this and I don't at all want any of this taken as political for a few different reasons:
1. The thought of someone seeing me on the opposite side of my current political beliefs horrifies me.
2. Politics are bad for business, but more importantly, bad for friendships.
3. I don't want to be that guy that pushes political beliefs subliminally.
So given all of that, please know that this isn't a political post in the slightest. I'm not pushing a belief with this article. Promise. I think too highly of all you guys to do that.
The most amazing thing I gleaned from this is when I read the referenced Wikipedia entry on the "T80" where it mentioned in passing that one Goldy Gardner exceeded 200 mph with a 1500cc MG before the war. Looks like the Brits were better than both us and the Germans, at least in those days!
By the fact that it was never able to run. Period.
Absolutely. In fact, given the history of land speed racing you could easily argue that the brits are the masters of piston driven land speed racing. However, Breedlove was quick to throw an American Flag on the whole damned thing until those "Thrust" series of cars came along. And come to think of it, isn't the piston driven record now owned by Poteet?
Ryan already stated that about the early 1950s
What's poe-lit-e-cull about it ? You already did say in paraphrase that "hill billy American know how, defeated the mighty machinations of the Nazi Reich".
Just a glorious spin of history and facts already, special delivered via bad ass hot rod bible stuff. Hallelujah man. Great read, story, post, and lesson. Taught me something new. Again. Love this place.
Never knew the double engine, trick truck cab, hit those speeds. F#kn' flatheads ?? (!!!) Odd rod proud. GB America baby.
Nice posting Ryan. The T-80 has always been a fascinating machine, starkly beautiful and engineered with a team lead by Ferdinand Porsche. Like many mega bucks racing efforts, money does not bring sucess. Formula 1 is a good emample as it is littered with so many failed attempts to build a winning race car.
On a more grim note the T-80 represents the warped society which emerged under Nazi rule where great work was being done while humanity was being subjected to unthinkable horrors. TEB
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Only those in charge can "bend the rules", for if any of the Minions had posted the article, it would have been deleted faster than the blink of a eye.
Great post Ryan.Thanks.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
No argument here. If that's a problem with you, you might be swimming in my wake.
Putting aside the universal sentiment that the Nazis were bad guys, you still can't take away from the ingenuity of German engineering--- without which we'd never have had the atomic bomb or the moon shot, among many other things. Something inside tells me that those guys would have sought that engineering knowledge even if the government wasn't leaning on their backs and filling their bank accounts.
Never able to run because it can't run is different than never able to run because the war interrupted things...
Right. He stated "Kenz & Leslie Streamliner that in 1952 got to within 12mph of breaking a record set by an entire damned government just a few years earlier. A few years later, it went north of 270mph – faster than any road going car Nazi Germany EVER built."
My point was that comparing something built in the 30's versus something built in the 50's isn't a real comparison. Anything built in the 50's had the benefit of large advances in technology and understanding. Like comparing the technology advances of a 1934 Ford versus a 1952 Ford.
Being the Boss has it's perks,I read the article and it's much better written than had I posted it,I honestly ignored what could be conceived as the political tone,I am well aware of your views on such things. HRP
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