Features Paxton People UNITE!!! Centrifugal Supercharger Technical Information!!

Alright, I have searched and searched and have found little detailed Paxton information. I figured I would start a thread to combine all the info from the HAMB and internet.

What is needed is history, mounting ideas, setup, performance upgrades, inherent problems, carb requirements....you get the idea.

I will contribute as much as I can.
http://vs57.y-block.info/
http://vs57.y-block.info/pin_ups.htm

My VS57 converted to an SN60 by John Erb.
Before;


After;



I'm excited for this thread because i am in the process of installing one on a 401 Nailhead.

Let's help each other out. "People helping people, it's a beautiful thing!"



BloodyKnuckles

 

links to a couple threads on converting the Edelbrock carbs to blow through.

http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/285135-Edelbrock-Blow-Through

http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/347067-Edelbrock-AFB-blow-thru-modifications-pics-vid

Haven't tried it yet but I have gathered up most of the bits and pieces

here's a fuzzy snap of my VS-57 bolted to an Olds manifold

and some parts for the conversion and install
bigger inlet, plastic floats, sealed accelerator pump
and fuel filter/regulator, fuel pressure gauge, air/fuel gauge, vacuum/boost gauge
and a clean swap meet carburetor to carve on

 

So, the question i have is do these centrifugals put as much strain on the crank nose as a roots blower. Or do they put any appreciable strain on the crank nose at all?

 

One of the most incredible cars I have had the pleasure to own was the Granatelli Brothers '62 Plymouth that Andy ran at Bonneville in '62. It was totally stock bodied but had twin Paxtons under the hood. Andy and brother Joe owned Paxton Products at the time.

His goal was 200 MPH but the snow plow type grill did not allow but 192. I bought it about 25 years ago as last raced and had it restored. I will dig out some more pics and post.

 

Have you driven it? Awesome car.

 

Do you still own it? Real sixties icon.

 

This is the engine that Granatelli ran 192 with at Bonneville. I had it rebuilt while the car was being restored.

 

Centrifugal blowers take less power to drive for a given pressure so, less strain on the crank nose.

The most I ever heard of for a Paxton or McCulloch was 12HP to drive the blower. And that was one that was modified for higher pressure than stock. The friction drive in the blower limits pressure and HP draw, push it too hard and it slips.

Stock or near stock would be under 10HP. And then, only when working hard. Until the throttle is fully open and you are making pressure the blower freewheels using very little power.

Roots blowers are much harder to drive but will also make more pressure. But for equal pressure, they probably take twice as much power to drive.

I should think breaking the nose off the crank would only happen under extreme racing pressures even with a roots blower.

 

Damn, pretty much marking the place on this one 'cause I've been trying to find an affordable way into one of thses for a long time!

One stupid question though. As I comb e-bay I see many many affordable SN89 units that were oh so popular back in the 5 liter Mustang days of the late eighties and early ninties. Now, to my untrained eye these units look VERY similar to the SN60 style units that we all lust after... How different are these units? What's involved in rebuilding one of these units?

 

My VS57 blown 327 is having a little vacation.





Blower motors produce more heat, and the 5" chopped Walker was having trouble keeping up.

And the mystery brew they sell as gas these days was giving problems with the pressurised carb.

So instead of hurting my Fred Williams built 327 and my John Erb rebuilt VS57, I swapped them for a unblown 350 for now.

Untill I can take a bit more time, and really sort it all out.

Unless I really like the '28 the way it is, and then I'll put the blower motor into something else...

 

SN89 is an updated version of the SN60 which is an update of the VS57.

VS57 = variable speed, 1953 introduction

SN60 = short nose, 1960 introduction

SN89 = short nose, 1989 introduction.

The newer the better. There have been various revisions over the years like more efficient impellers.

Original design was for the typical 1953 engine. They were tested on 239 cu in Ford flathead V8s. At their best on engines under 350 cu in.

They did make bigger blowers for bigger engines.

 

Cool, that's what I was hoping!

 

Good points, Rusty, et al. The McCulloch/Paxton was designed for small engines and if asked to feed more than 300", two were required. BTW, do you have a reference for those horsepower/drive numbers? Making boost takes work.

It's pretty moot anyway. Unless the serpentine drive is used, the McCulloch/Paxton won't make much boost. The Stude drag racers running stock V-belts have to replace them every couple of runs. They sandblast the pulleys for traction, tighten the tensioners and the belts slip anyway.

FWIW, the racing versions of the Paxton were sold without any warranty. If asked to make more than six pounds of boost for more than a few minutes, they were toast.

jack vines

 

The HP figure came off the net a long time ago, I don't remember the source. As you point out the drive belt and pulleys is also a limiting factor. Stock, they use the same size drive belt as a riding lawn mower blade drive.

 

does any 1 know year and applcation of this

 

Yes, it had a full custom made exhaust with mufflers and cutouts for open headers. It was the original system the Granatelli's made. It was easy to drive on the street but I didn't but a few times.

It has been in Garlits' museum for over 20 years.

 

My 1964 Studebaker Avanti R2. Paxton was a Studebaker subsidiary at the time.

 

Good thread

 

Thanks Paul and everyone else. This is great info so far.

My VS57 was converted to an SN60 by John Erb. This guy is the real deal. He worked for Paxton then Keith Black as their chief engineer. To say he knows the capabilities is an understatement. I told him that I was using this on a 401 Nailhead so he installed a high efficiency impeller and upgraded the spring pack tfor the larger displacement. I also had him design a cam for the Paxton. He told me that this is no SBC grind, this is Nailhead grind. That's all I needed to hear. I'll have the specs when I receive the cam.




BloodyKnuckles

 

Awesome thread! Already learned a few things!

 

Way cool. Although, I couldn't imagine having a beast like that and not being able to run it. Thanks for sharing.

 

So, does anybody have some sort of tutorial on both checking one of these out before slapping down money for used, and how about a step by stepper on going through one before use? I'd really like to know what I'm looking for as I prowl the swaps and e-bay.

Just for the record, what I'm contemplating is hanging one of these on one of my 200inch Falcon sixes as the Grannitelli Bros did back in the early sixties.

 

I was invited to bring it to Daytona Speed Week in '90 just after the restoration was completed. I towed it to Daytona and was staying at a hotel on the beach but drove it to the Halifax County Racing Museum about 5 miles away. One guy there watched it run at Bonneville in '62 and could not get over me driving it on the street.

 

Craig Conley/Paradise Wheels has been selling and servicing vintage Paxton's for as long as I can remember: http://paradisewheels.biz/

 

Just throwing this out there but I'm looking for a carb bonnet/carb hat. I'm really looking for an older one. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Also, what kind of belt tensioner can be used with a dual pulley system? Any pics?



BloodyKnuckles

 

Yeah,Great guys to deal with,I was there 6 weeks ago and got shown through the place and I got all the bits I needed to mount my modified VS57 on a 365 Cad motor.Craig was happy to pass on all the info needed.
They also have a few early original mounting brackets also.

 

Was looking for some other stuff tonight, and ran across this, figured it belongs here...

 

the rest. Click on these a couple times, they'll open up big enough to read.

 

Bloody
Glad John is taking care of you. I've been chattin with him for a while and he really knows his shit. As far as the belt tensioner you do not need to run the original style spring loaded since yours was converted from a VS (Variable Speed) to a SN (Short Nose - single speed, I guess short nose sounded cooler) Just snug that belt up with an adjustable mount like an alternator. That's my plan for my Mopar Big Block. As far as the bonnet goes you will have a hell of a time finding an old one for your 4 barrel. From digging around on the turbo forums there are a few good options that flow really good. This is the route I'm going. Price is right, it get good reviews and it's the same place that did your carb. http://www.csucarbs.com/airbon.html


For info on buying a used one I learned the hard way. I bought one that I was hoping was rebuildable. These use a bearing drive and from what I have been told any pitting on the race, case or balls and it will eat it's self alive. considering the RPMs these things get driven too it makes a lot of sense. Mine case was pitted, as were my ball bearings. It was junk. I hate to sound like a commercial here, and I have no affiliation to him but I have learned alot from chatting with Mr Erb and he is more than happy to answer any questions. Hell he designed the High output impeller for these things. If anyone wants his number PM me.


I placed an order earlier this year for a high output SN60, custom ground solid lifter cam, and lifters. I'll be putting it on a Mopar 400 big block with aluminum heads and a blow thru holley 750. I've been collecting parts for this thing for a few years and I'm stoked about getting my final pieces.



I am not trying to bash anyones business I but I heard of quite a few people with bad experiences from Paradise wheels and VS57s. They may be good with the later paxtons but I would not (and did not) send my VS57 there. It's a slightly different animal.