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Technical Path of the welders choice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by K.L, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    So, I understand that the topic may sound alittle like a cheesy fantasy book title but don't be afraid!

    Basically I'm a young guy who's fresh meat when it comes to hot rodding and cars, atleast the DIY part of it.
    I'm attending a 1 year welding class that goes over TIG, MIG/MAG, MMA and Gas.

    I'm wondering what types of welding I'll be using for the most part when dealing with traditional hot rod building.
     
  2. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,067

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Most of them were built with a oxyacetylene torch and a stick welder. Sheet metal and bodywork were usually brazed.

    Nobody would use such primitive means now that MIG and TIG are available but some great cars were built with so called primitive equipment.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  3. Mig and Tig mostly now a days. You'll also use the torch for heating and bending some stuff.
    -Pat
     
  4. drtybiker
    Joined: Mar 11, 2014
    Posts: 303

    drtybiker
    Member
    from florida

    Yes that torch is your best friend I still use it alot more then most people would , I just love to weld with coat hangers and gas....
     
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  5. fatkoop
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 712

    fatkoop
    Member

    In a hurry? MIG. Want very solid, great looking welds? TIG Your world begins and ends with "traditional"? oxy-acy. or stick. I use all types on different occasions, just depends on what you're doing, what type of metal, and how good the weld needs to be.
     
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  6. It is good to be able to do it all , and have all the equipment .
     
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  7. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies.
    When I say "traditional" I mean traditional as in looks and performance. I know there's alot of mechanical tips and tricks from the early days that is still used tho.

    I've heard and seen alot of good stuff about the TIG!
    I'm planning on becoming a full-time welder and stick seems to be where I want to go but I guess I'll try to master TIG and MIG aswell.
     
  8. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,696

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    A lot of the high end metal fabricators still use gas welding to weld sheet metal, even aluminum. Don't be too quick to discount the quality of the welds, and ability to fine finish them by hammer welding!
     
  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,703

    The37Kid
    Member

    Learn to gas weld well first. Bob
     
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  10. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    Any particular reason why?
     
  11. gpohl6
    Joined: Sep 22, 2013
    Posts: 58

    gpohl6
    Member

    Learning to gas weld teaches you to create and control the "puddle" which helps greatly when transitioning to TIG (at least in my experience). But note, I'm a hobbyist and NOT a trained welder by trade.
     
  12. gpohl6
    Joined: Sep 22, 2013
    Posts: 58

    gpohl6
    Member

    Learning to gas weld teaches you to create and control the "puddle" which helps greatly when transitioning to TIG (at least in my experience). But note, I'm a hobbyist and NOT a trained welder by trade.
     
  13. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    I've started out with the TIG already and kinda got the hang of how the puddle control works.
    Takes alot of practice and patience for sure.
     
  14. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,972

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    There's a couple things that you may or may not be told about TIG but this is how I deliever the message to those few I've taught. 1st, LOOK ONLY AT THE WELD (or puddle). There's a lot going on outside that helmet. The torch, the wire, the parts, lots to look at, BUT DON'T. 2nd, YOU'RE "DRIVING". You're working the pedal which increases or decreases the heat (arc). You don't leave every stop sign at full throttle, you don't start every weld at full tilt either. Add those 2 things into your own self control and you'll get the feel in no time. For me, and maybe for you and others, I found that getting the hang of aluminum made me a better steel welder with the TIG. It's all about control. There's places where an O/A torch is better like custom aluminum stuff. I used to do O/A on most sheet metal repairs, then I picked up a TIG and never looked back. Again, for my needs/wants, I get less work after the weld vs O/A. Traditional? Sure it is, but so is a dirt floor or gravel driveway and I don't work in those conditions either. Just a smartass way of making a point, no offense to those who torch vs TIG.
     
  15. ..once you learn/master torch welding; the others come easier.
     
  16. If you are comfortable TIG welding the rest will come very easy.
    What you could need when building a car.
    1. gas weld (DON'T BRAZE ANYTHING) solder, coat hanger welding, hammer welding, shrinking, cutting.
    2. arc weld (cast iron, steel, sheet metal-that is how I learned)
    3. MIG (aluminum-spool, steel)
    4. TIG (aluminum, SS, steel)
    5. Plasma cutting
    6. everything else
     
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,246

    squirrel
    Member

    There are indeed a few places where brazing is appropriate on a hot rod.
     
  18. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,358

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Am I the only one who doesnt know of MAG or MMA welding? both are new terms to me.

    Personally. If I had my pick of machines I'd have stick for outdoor type work (repairs that dont fit into the shop)
    MIG for being lazy an fast. OA because you never realize how handy a torch is until you dont have one and TIG for the pretty stuff. Once I got the hang of TIG I now prefer it for the most part, it takes more time but what nice welds and deep penetration you can get. I like the driving annalogy, similar to my style I learned, and yes once I welded a few miles of aluminum I did get better at steel even.

    All styles have a place .
     
  19. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,246

    squirrel
    Member

    MMA is a fancy name for stick welding.
     
  20. I'm an older fuddy duddy, but my first welding course was stick, and it will give you a foundation to build your knowledge of all the other types of welding equipment. I have an old stick welder that I use for heavy work, not much need to weld 1/2" plate on cars, but it is cheap, an oxy-propane cutting torch, (no welding tips) a little Lincoln MIG to weld everything else.(steel) If I was going to do more body work, I would get a TIG.
    If you really want to stay traditional, they used to braze with a stick welder and a carbon arc torch.
     
  21. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,529

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I first struck an arc with a stinger and rod when I was about ten years old and have never stopped learning. Over the years I went to some formal classes but mostly learned what I needed to know from asking questions, reading books and practicing. You will eventually use all types at different times but I mostly fabricate things like frames with MIG. Brackets and things made on the bench are TIG, heating and bending with OXY and cutting out shapes are Plasma cutter.
    Welding Aluminum is the hardest and I still haven't mastered it. Laying on your back under a car and TIG welding with the foot pedal wedged against a jack stand is good at teaching patience.
     
  22. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    Thanks alot.
    The school uses TIG's that use a button on the pistol instead of a pedal.

    Haven't gotten to aluminium yet but I am doing upside down TIG for the moment actually.
    Key words are practice and patience, loads of it.

    Seems like I'll be needing all types of welding equally much then.
     
  23. to answer your initial question, many, many cars have been built entirely with a MIG welder. its the most obvious choice for most hobbyists.

    there are a handful of guys who rely solely on TIG for their own personal reasons.

    I'm one who believes that there is a best process for every job. therefore i own a MIG a TIG and and Oxy/Acet rig.

    i still need to invest in a miro torch and a plasma cutter.

    that being said, at a minimum i would count on a MIG for all of your structural and a good gas rig for all of your heating, bending and cutting.
     
  24. FTF
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 99

    FTF
    Member

    You didn't say where you were going to school, however if you plan on making a living at welding the skill set required is basic stick, tig, mig. Pipe welders in the field can draw up to 40.00 per hr. Here in Tulsa one shop is paying 30.00. Structural steel pays a little less. Are you willing to travel ?
    Any of the skills you learn in school will transfer to Hot Rodding.
     
  25. UA_HoBo
    Joined: Dec 16, 2009
    Posts: 108

    UA_HoBo
    Member
    from Oswego NY

    the one thing noody has said what so ever here is EDUCATE. Learn a skill that can carry you in the world as well as your hobby. Welding has a high demand. sure, PIPE Welding has a huge demand. There are welders and then there are WELDERS. where would you like to fall? I am a 3rd geratetion Union Pipefitter and i has done all of us well.
     
  26. UA_HoBo
    Joined: Dec 16, 2009
    Posts: 108

    UA_HoBo
    Member
    from Oswego NY

    the one thing noody has said what so ever here is EDUCATE. Learn a skill that can carry you in the world as well as your hobby. Welding has a high demand. sure, PIPE Welding has a huge demand. There are welders and then there are WELDERS. where would you like to fall? I am a 3rd geratetion Union Pipefitter and i has done all of us well.
     
  27. K.L
    Joined: Jul 15, 2014
    Posts: 93

    K.L
    Member

    I'm from Stockholm Sweden and I haven't made up my mind about the traveling part yet.
    Stick is what I initially wanted to focus on and try for work but I'm not sure now that I've heard alot about the MIG, TIG and gas being used alot in hot rodding. I mean, it would be really handy to use the skills I'd pick up on the job and use it in the garage but I guess stick doesn't really fit into the picture.
     
  28. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,048

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very true!!Before I retired from construction(Union Carpenter) i would always check out the welders on job sites, the Pipefitters would make incredible welds with stick and OA that would rival TIG!!! Pete
     
  29. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 812

    chrisp
    Member

    I learned gas, TIG and MIG/MAG some 22 years ago.
    As a bodyman I've never used stick welding, gas and MIG/MAG yes and 90% of the time it was MAG. This year I re-learned TIG, since it's the first shop I work for that does have one. Now I use the TIG probably 70% of the time, it depends on how fast you want the job done (plug welds are also easier with the MIG/MAG). I see TIG as just an electric torch in the way it welds, but really more accurate, if you gas weld you can pick up TIG real easy.
     
  30. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,703

    The37Kid
    Member

    I learned how to gas weld first years ago, then stick welding, and later Heli Arc for aluminum. I really liked welding Bugatti bodywork and other sports car bodies, and could weld aluminum castings too. To me all three of these types of welding share a common "puddle" that you the welder control. MIG is in its own world that I don't understand or like. Why you have a lump of crap on top of the metal you are welding that has to be ground off I'll never understand. Bob
     
    Ricks Garage likes this.

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