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Patch pannels

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Scrap Iron, Feb 14, 2007.

  1. Flop
    Joined: Jun 8, 2006
    Posts: 3,885

    Flop
    Member

    nope been very happy with the fit of everything ive used from them so far. had to do a little work because the panels are not for a 50 pontiac like in the fender skirt area but that is about it .
     
  2. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Brent ,
    Can ya offer any info on your Pullmaxian-like patch panel machine?
    How thick a gage will she handle? Motor hp., etc.
    Looks like a great tool for the "they don't make 'um, guess I'll
    build them myself guys".

    Swankey Devils C.C.
     
  3. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,573

    ems customer service
    Member

    thanks for all the good comments on our stuff guys,,we try hard to make good stuff and try to improve when we can. when we do improve a panel we always offer the abilty to trade in the old panel for our new version.

    and then every day we guys who want to buy the wrong panel for there car beacuse they have a orphan car without the availabilty of patch panels, and we are asked every day " can i make it work" "i'll try it anyways!! except for some unique situations ems will not sell a panels for a application we can not stand behind

    all of you are correct in you comments on patch panels from poor mfg. to what the market will bear, to car companies making bodies at different suppilers. also trying to find a good part to copy from is our biggest headache. and then there is mid year production changes. which becaome a headache when the body was made for a multiple years.

    not sure if the panels come from the same supplier, ask questions about the panel if the sales person cant explain then they should call the mfg for more details, if they dont this may be a reason to find a hot rod store with better customer service. also be skeptical if the mfg does not identfy there work, most do, but some stores remove lables. and we have had some hot rod store lie about the source of there parts.

    also dont forget that sometimes the body is tweaked from old age and bad handling over the years. remember henry ford designed the "t" "a" and early v-8" to be flexiable bodies to take the abuse of farm roads. and the wood framing will change with humidity.

    and dont take 49ratfink seriously he is mad all patch panels companies beacuse he feels that may be taking work away from his small shop and used parts biz, and is especially resentfull of our newer 49 chev parts. rat finks foul language and threats do little to justify his resentfull opinon.
     
  4. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,036

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    and dont take 49ratfink seriously he is mad all patch panels companies beacuse he feels that may be taking work away from his small shop and used parts biz, and is especially resentfull of our newer 49 chev parts. rat finks foul language and threats do little to justify his resentfull opinon.

    how funny is that?

    if companies like EMS made high quality good fitting parts it would make my life much easier. your comment makes no sense whatsoever.
     
  5. Svenny
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 129

    Svenny
    Member

    So, will you step up to the plate and become an Alliance vender?
     
  6. I had to replace the rockers on my 48 Fleetline. I looked around and all I could realy find where the complete rocker from EMS. So I ordered a set of the rockers at the tune of $255.00 each.

    The only piece that I used off of the complete unit was the top. They where the biggest pieces of crap I have ever used. And I have seen some crappy panels. I work in a local body shop.

    When I pushed on the panel to line it up where it had to go. Some of the spot welds broke. So I just took the panel apart. Which was not hard at all, since all I had to do was push by the welds and they broke free.
     
  7. hillbillyhell
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 934

    hillbillyhell
    Member

    haha, I just posted a thread for bitching reasons about my pickup patch panels. As far as I can tell, all the pickup stuff is made by the same place. My cab corners went back to the vendor, I ended up making what I needed there. I did use the door skins and bottoms, same deal as you, one door bottom was at least a quarter wide.

    Like you said thoug, once I got over my being pissed off about it, I thought about what I actually spent. If I wanted perfect I should have dropped $575 a side for Waldens door skins...oh well.
     
  8. man-a-fre
    Joined: Apr 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,311

    man-a-fre
    Member

    Tom at R&J enterprises Arkansas,Kansas makes excellant!! deuce panels that fit ph.(620)441-0032
     
  9. tisdelski
    Joined: Jul 19, 2005
    Posts: 255

    tisdelski
    Member

    heres where brent got his shopdog hammer http://www.shopdog.net/index2.htm

    he hangs out at www.metalmeet.com


    gary
     
  10. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,573

    ems customer service
    Member

    to: svenny, we are discussing the alliance program with some of our authorized dealers, as they can offer a more inventory then just our stuff,


    we need to let our dealers have first crack at the alliance program cause of the state of ohio has some goofey franchise regulations,
    ------------------------------------------

    to: 48 fleetline, sorry spot welds broke, it does happen at times, but we would have replaced them, if you called us??? and i gather that by your description you recieved a rocker panels kit, rocker box assembly with floor braces you threw away alot parts cause of the spot welds?
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
  11. Well after all this and still no one can say where to get good 30-31 model A quarter patch panels
     
  12. I know that spot welds break from time to time. I have had it happen. BUT. The spot welds should not break like that on 2 different pieces. All that is, is poor spot welds. Plain and simple.
    I did buy the complete kit with the floor braces. I did throw out a lot of the pieces as well. The floor braces don't fit like the originals and half the pieces are not bent exact as factory. So they would not line up with anything. I just bent my own to get the job done.
     
  13. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,854

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    When I was repairing the quarters and replacing one rocker panel on my 55 ford I had to do some tweeking to make the patch panels and rocker panel fit,the worst pact panel I had to deal with was the inner quarter that attaches to the trunk floor. If I would of used the whole panel it would have been easier but it would of required taking more out of the quarter to install it so I used the lower edge where it met the outer quarter. NOS stuff sometimes does not fit right as I have a NOS front fender I could not get to fit right with my limited body work skills so I found a good used one. Jeff
     
  14. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member


    Where do you guys come up with this information? :rolleyes: I'm like in the floor rolling because nothing could be further from the truth. From the introduction of the New Improved Ford, he manufactured in-house better than 75% of the bodies. The assembly process was not "done by hand" in the sense that they were just laid out and workers went after the best they could. There were jigs that had exacting dimensions and tollerences and these tollerences were kept tight. Am I saying these tollerences are as close as what laser-guided robots do today? Nope --but I am saying that interchangability was expected back then and was the norm. While on this tangent, Ford was shrewd in that he did outsource when production demands could not met in-house however HE was the one that set the guidelines for what was expected. Subtile changes like 'caged nuts' over 'D-nuts' were allowed, and minor styling issues were allowed however Briggs, Murray, or Budd had to, and I repeat HAD TO comform to strict tollerences where replacement parts would interchange.

    People need to realize that in the late 30s on throughout the automotive industry, that there were companies making inferior panels for all makes of cars just like today. Even during production of the Model A, there were companies manufacturing substandard parts. This is most evident when Henry Ford decided to drop his Ford script due to the time and costs to manufacture this script into the tooling. Substandards parts became a problem so on some items such spring hangers (a.k.a. shackles) the Ford script had been dropped and was re-introduced in late 1930.

    Anyway, back to the myth about the same panel not fitting, I think you need to go back and study the process through accurate factory drawings and procedures --and not from "he said/she said".



    Scrap Iron, I don't think you are paying attention. We just told you that there really isn't a quality made commercially available patch panel for each and every item. Certain pieces are better than others. You have indicated that you are unhappy with the panels you received however you have not disclosed your source. They may have the best available --or they may not.




     

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  15. Blair
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 361

    Blair
    Member
    from xx

    I bought a set of front quarter panel patches for my 31 coupe from Harrys Early Ford Parts and they fit OK. At least the bead was the right size. Although the top dimension of the patch from the brake at the front to the bead was too short. So I beat the brake flat, welded the patch in and hammered the brake back in the correct spot. Then added metal to the flat to match. I would buy from them again, most that I have seen are much worse than that.
     
  16. leon renaud
    Joined: Nov 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,935

    leon renaud
    Member
    from N.E. Ct.

    Brent ;
    my instance of that model a patch panel was first hand NOT a friend of a friend .it was done at my cousins body shop .Your right in that ford expected panels to be made to tight tolerances as I suspect each manufacturer did ,However I stand on what I said in the final fit of these panels it was only as good as the operator doing the assembly.If every tolerance was held as tight as you say there would never have been a reason to shim new bodies on a new chassis or hinges for doors or trunk lids or hoods to be shimmed to fit .The gaps around each panel would be exactly the same all around .Every panel from any body style would fit exactly the same on any other body of that style.Tollerance allowance is key here a guy assembling inner and outer door skins that was careless in the clamping of those pieces before joining them into an assembled door can slightly change the shape of those panels.A slight miss adjustment in a die can have a big factor in the final product as well as a worn die.While not auto related I work in sheetmetal forming on a daily basis and I have seen a run of Identical panels change during a run just changing from one sheet of steel to the next!I'm using doors as an example here because I personaly have seen doors on a model A that BOTH sides showed the same misfit at the bottoms the lower doors opposite the hinges stood proud of the door opening by 1/2 inch both doors did not match the curve of the body top to bottom.Also why is it that you can find as much as 1/2 differences in fore/aft door openings in model A bodies if those Ford employees were so exacting in building them ?As for Ford making his own bodies I know for a fact that 28-29 A bodies were supplied by more than 1 OUTSIDE manufacturer besides Ford making some and thats not my opinion but the Judges of MAFCA .I have on a few occasions seen in books what looked like 30 model As listed as 28-29 bodies.At a MAFCA meet here in Mass. I got to see one of these cars first hand and talk to the 3 judges that were going over that car at the time I was looking at it they had documentation on the manufacturing of those bodies .If I remember correctly one of those outside vendors was Murrey.1 outside vendor made the body with the 30 style cowl while the other 2 made the stepped side cowl.Ford also made His early bodies like the As as envelope s that the wooden skeleton was fit into what happened when one of those wooden reinforcement was just a little off and the guy tapped into place with a hammer the skin it came in contact with slightly changed shape !As for these new laser assembled cars take a good look at those and tell me that every seam is perfect!Yes I stand by what I said A high end perfectlly made patch panel may exactly fit the car it was made for and need some tweeking to fit the next,And that you get what you pay for don't expect a 15$ swap meet Tiawanees panel to fit at all !
     

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