Passionate about cars

Well young man you have just received the best advice that no money can buy! I could rattle off my life experiences but all the best has beed said (except for the "going to jail" bit). I was raised on Beaners words "finish what you started"! This is perfect advice for alot of reasons so take heed. I have worked as a toolmaker for 30 plus years now and my reget was that I didn't take it one step further and get my engineering degree.I was asked a number of times by an mech engineer in a Magna shop to seriously consider this option. As a young man I thought being a toolmaker, I was set for life. WRONG! Being from TO you have probably noticed that our beloved Mr. McGoofball has sold our province down the river and auto trades are going the way of the dinosaur. My situation is not the norm so I'm doing OK. But others are not. Please please please stay and finish your degree! You'll have time to get back to the cars. Best of luck!

 

The thing about money is not that it makes you happy it is just a necessary evil. When the kids need shoes you have two choices buy them or beg them, maybe my pride will be my down fall but I have never been one much to beg.

I can certainly think of several times in my life that I could have used a couple of bucks when I didn't have a couple. Money has never been an issue for me, but that doesn't change the fact that it would have come in handy a time or two.

 

Money can't buy happiness?? Heed the words of the wise old farmer." Treat banks like you would befriend a skunk. At a good distance!"

 

Restoration, hot rods, customs, race cars, all the same shit. News flash! At 55 yrs old a lifetime car guy says "LABOR SUCKS!!". That's right, it sucks. It makes a mess of you and your shop. You'll get burned, cut, torn muscles and tendons, heavy shit can drop on your hand or your foot. I don't care if it's chopping trees, carpentry, concrete, production, LABOR SUCKS. Making money in special cars boils down to, you guessed it, labor. Forget pissy and cheap customers, thankless hours, "beer budgets", that's something you need to learn before you hang up a shingle saying "Canadian Custom Cars, LTD".

Some guys get it right as live well. Actually well enough to instill a degree of envy. Most know I restore rather than rod or custom, but I've had the opportunity over the years of both experiences. You also have to know something very important if you're to succeed at any level, and that's MARKET TRENDS. It's too complicated to get into here, but you need to pay attention. Welding, lead, creativity, inspiration, I get all of that from restoration. I tended to keep my hipo and kustom passions to myself, and that kept the fires burning. I'm sending a message here. Are you getting it?

So if labor sucks, then what? Suck it up and labor away if THAT'S TRULY WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. At your age get to like hot dogs instead of steak for several years. Work for someone and learn to eat it when they get told what a great job "he did", when you actually got dirty doing it, because without "him" you wouldn't be there. It will pay big on your resume later. You do what "he" says anyway to the best of your ability. You won't hear me say "GO TO COLLEGE AND GET A DEGREE!", becuase there's costs and social ramifications to that ideal that I hate with a fuckin passion. Yet, maybe it is for you. Can you or will you suffer the same low wage and thankless job you get for the 1st semesters of your work life? Even if you're degree'd? I know some who got a degree and can't make what I've struggled to make over the years. I know some who work construction and put my earnings to shame now and then. But lets get back to that market trend thing. Why is that? One of the most popular activities in the continent right now, FLIPPING. What a great way to boost your annual bottom line as you labor through the month. You can do that several ways. Buy and sell for yourself, buy parts (specialize if you can, trust me there), you can offer to market cars for your clients. You can buy cars for clients. Like real estate agents, it pays so the more $$$$$$$ the better for you. Can you take all of this in? Are you ready to struggle? Are you hungry? Will you finish what you started anyways? You should, and you should also give it your all. You'll never know which way to turn at the crossroads if you don't, and trust me on this, at 21 that crossroad is hundreds of miles away. Keep driving. You can't possibly follow 100% what I nor anyone else on here did. I got into this by necessity, helping Dad earn extra after hrs in our home shop. I was stirring bondo at 11yrs old, spraying primer between 12 and 13, did my 1st complete at 14. I was done, hooked, fucked, never to leave the world of specialty cars, ever. I've tried, but like Michael Corleone, "...every time I try to get out, they pull me back in...".

I wouldn't trade what I do for anything. I can raise my right hand to this, even if I hit a multi-million powerball, I'd build something with my own hands. If the labor (creativity) is the juice for you talk to the best advisor in the world. He's over the top of your bathroom sink every morning. My advisor is an asshole...

 

Lots of good advice from the the guys that know. All I can add is that I second Beaner's admonition to finish what you start. There's a great life lesson in those words. I too, encourage you to get an education. It will both shape and equip you to succeed in whatever direction you go in life. And do it now. I'm working on a doctorate at 55, and wish I had done it decades (yes, you will think in terms of decades one day) ago.

 

Good common sense, philosophy, cars, and bunch of older buggers who care giving good advice...................priceless!

 

All fantastic advise.
I'll add a couple things:
That passion you have, learn to channel it into results. I know it sucks to study for a test in something you will never need. It is WORK ETHIC to study for something you don't care for. WORK ETHIC will get you further than the info in that test. That's the secret that a lot of kids don't get.

If you plan on actually working for yourself doing cars or anything else, pay attention to business classes. There are 20 guys who can fab and finish better than you. They are artists, and most artists are not good business men. They are the guys who can't keep a shop open. They are the guys you can hire to do the artistic stuff and you can help, learn and hopefully have enough business sense that both of you can go home with a paycheck.

 

Hard to expand on the great advise already given..it's spot on.
Many people love to fish..but have no intention of becoming a professional fisherman, same could be said of many passions/hobbies.
It's a great thing to be able to carve out a decent living, which enables you to be able to fund your real passions, without stressing about putting food on the table, and keeping up with a mortgage payment.
Adversity is a good thing, it allows you to truely appreciate your true passions, and the time spent doing them.

 

Michael, you are fortunate to have all the advice laid out in a very truthful way. All of our passion stems from a car world that has progressed from its beginnings until now where it has grown into a world of older guys with an internal passion for our hobby........some have chosen to build, labor, or open a shop and all the advice lends to future of hard work and maybe burnout. You are commended for taking the steps to explore your passion, at 21 life will change just as the car world will. I often think how many more years will it hold strong........I hear more and more of old timers passing ......will there be a generation of passionate younger guys exploring our enjoying it to this current level?........I am afraid it will dwindle.....it is currently at its peak.....take a survey as to how many older car guys will attempt to build a car again, some are streamlining their collection or selling for financial reasons.......all this leads to will there be as strong a market for this passion in this hobby/trade. With the costs involved a younger average car enthusiast cannot even think of a cool car build if they are buying a home or raising children. Ok........back to advice......i have had a secure job in the Federal gov. working on their fleet of vehicles for 40 years...this opportunity will not happen again for your generation......during that time i pursued my passion and had a side shop doing enough to support my hobby/passion. Many times while doing a customer car I said this is ridiculous working on someones ride just to pay rent.....it seemed a waste but it honed your skills too. My suggestion would be to get a career that pays well and has benefits.....shoot for a home with a piece of property that will allow a nice sized garage/shop to do some side work without overhead and keep your passion at a manageable level. I have raised three sons that work in the trades, plumbing, Hvac, and welding....all bust your butt jobs but necessary....no silver spoons here.....and Dad still busts his too. Whatever you choose remember to laugh and enjoy each day, in order to receive you will have to give too........think of your future without too much worry and do not overburden yourself........each and every one of us are winners from the beginning....we all won the sperm race and are here one day at a time.

 

Should I continue going to school and land a good job and build cars on the side? Or should I just put all my effort into building cars?

I am in a relationship now and I want to marry this girl someday and we already talked about having a family. Will I be able to support a family by chopping Model As and leading Mercs? Or will I have to get a better job?

I am just not sure what to do at this point. I hate the school I am going to now and hate the program I am in. I miss welding and doing sheet metal work. My passion is hot rods, kustoms bobbers, choppers, vans and lowriders. I just don't have the same desire for doing silly assignments at school.

Thanks!

Mitchell de Moor[/QUOTE]

Everyone has given you some great advice; Stick with school. If you dislike the school or the program, switch schools and/or your minor.
At your age, you have plenty of time to find the right mix.

All this discussion is with yourself. The one thing nobody has asked is how is your future spouse with your plans? Will she put up with raising kids, etc. while you work 70 hours a week to get/keep a new shop running-all with unsure income, health insurance coverage and the stress it brings??? If you moonlight at a shop or build in your home garage at night or on weekends while working a 9-5 M-F gig, will she "put up" with that or will you hear that "you're always working, tired and don't spend any family time". Many women won't. I broke off an engagement years ago because she gave me an ultimatum to quit working on cars as a hobby in order to have her.

If you'll be married and make a life together, they'll be compromises (like every marriage), but discuss them up front. Don't assume you'll just work things out later. You're also young. What you and she go for at 21 may be very different at 30, etc.

At 52, I just told my teenage Son what my Dad told me in High School; There are a lot of things in life that you won't like and making a living is one of them. Pick something that has a demand and interests you and hopefully isn't regional. Then, no matter how little or much $$$ you make, live within your means. This will allow you to own a home and cars, etc. rather than rent from someone else and work on their toys.

 

I'm sure it doesn't seem like it to you, but you are young and have plenty of time to make decisions on your life. I struggled putting myself through school, working 3 jobs and taking a full load of classes. You are going through the tough part of life where is seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. But if you work hard it usually pays off in the end. I didn't start making any decent money even with a 4 year degree until I was 30. That was just the state of the economy in the mid to late '80s.

Keep your head up until you figure out what you want to do. No matter what you are doing, give it 100% or you won't be successful at it. Even if you don't like what you are doing, hard work will make people notice and may lead to other opportunities. Being a slouch won't...

 

Mitchell, it is good to see a guy your age setting goals. It may feel like there is a lot of pressure on you now, but there will always be pressure!

The advice my girls received on entering university was to take classes that interested them and see where that leads, as for a major. Both ended up with their Masters Degrees and got jobs in their fields. There are jobs out there for graduates, maybe fewer for the mediocre ones.

I worked on cars my whole life and I can tell you, the great paying jobs are few in that field. The trouble with most people that "follow their hearts" and start a business doing what they love is that they are not business people. At the minimum a business degree would be a giant leg up. "The school of hard knocks gives a good education, but the tuition is too high."

Find a good career in mechanical engineering, or some other field that lets you exercise your mechanical aptitude, while making a good income! Then, put together your life with the customs built on your time, in your space, to your liking!

Your formal education will always be a good foundation for everything else.

Thanks for asking our advice! Good Luck to you and your girl.

~Alden

 

Dont stop...push through. Dont change, just get through. Getting through school is a necessary evil. Even if you go back to the car thing for a living. Education is never a waste. It will make you a better owner, manager, operator, communicator. It should stretch your mind and expand your horizons. Unfortunately, it may not be what your interested in. Thats okay. PUSH THRU!

School is what you make it....your just in a tuff spot. No one like sanding...you just push through it for the end result.

 

Stick with school. I nearly skipped an education in design when I was 21 cos I was in a band doing quite well and all I wanted to do is music. I started my degree and six months later the band split up. 20 years later I've been in two other successful bands but that design degree has always paid the bills. If you have the ability to weld and fabricate do your self a favor and study design or business.....design will teach you problem solving and aesthetics (industrial design will give you the best all round foundation) and business will give you the financial and planning sense to put your skills to work (. Or at the very least get a job in the automotive industry.....you'd be amazed how many related fields there are) if you have the ability to add an education in one of these fields to the practical creative skills you already have you'll find yourself in a cool place in a few years time. most importantly, hold on to the passion for what you love, don't deny it.....do what your good at, it'll always give you a leg up, rather than struggling to make a career out of something that's not a good fit.

 

Have to agree with what most have said. Really good advice. A degree is helpful and if you choose one wisely, it could lay the foundation for starting up your own business down the road. But tuition is steep and the burden might outweigh it's rewards. So start with a junior college maybe and see how it goes. Then once you establish a field of interest, take a serious look at a 4 year institution.

As for striking out in the paint and body business, I will share my experience watching a friend follow his dream and passion in car and truck repair. He started out painting in an outbuilding on his fathers farm. Word spread of his quality and speed for getting work completed. Soon the outbuilding was too small. So he contracted to have a shop built closer to town. He soon found out what dealing with city and county agencies were all about. And then it was the Fire Department and the EPA and other "tree hugging" groups all vying to shut him down before he got started. He came really close to throwing in the towel but he pushed forward. What was suppose to be a budget in the tens of thousands ended up in the hundreds of thousands. The idea of sustaining a business with specialty cars and trucks was out of the question. He moved into collision work and soon found out that's where the profits were. Tired of deadbeat paying customers with their hot rods and customs, his business is primarily collision. Oh sure, he'll do a few customs, etc. But it's with people he trusts to pay. Maybe you won't have his issues based on where you live. But it's worth checking out now before you set your heart in motion.

Do yourself a favor and get an education if you can justify it. Family is very important and not to be taken lightly. You may have a very understanding woman in your life. But there are threshold's. Find out what her's are now.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Another point to bring up is, the fact that the business is not what it use to be 20 years ago, hell, even 10 or 5 years ago. I have found the new norm is that people dont have any money. When you make a living of working for people that have extra money on their "play toys", thats the first thing that gets cut in tough times.

In a business that is fickle anyway the current bad economy can just add more trouble. Yea, there are still some people that have money but the pool of customers that do is getting smaller.

 

One more for getting an education and high paying job. Working blue collar many hours for low wages does not mix well with the expensive hobby of hot rodding.

 

Get the education. It will open many more doors regardless of what field you choose to work in. The degree does not make the man, but it sure can make more choices.
Get a job you can enjoy after you get the degree. Life is short man.

 

Everyone has given you some great advice; Stick with school. If you dislike the school or the program, switch schools and/or your minor.
At your age, you have plenty of time to find the right mix.

All this discussion is with yourself. The one thing nobody has asked is how is your future spouse with your plans? Will she put up with raising kids, etc. while you work 70 hours a week to get/keep a new shop running-all with unsure income, health insurance coverage and the stress it brings??? If you moonlight at a shop or build in your home garage at night or on weekends while working a 9-5 M-F gig, will she "put up" with that or will you hear that "you're always working, tired and don't spend any family time". Many women won't. I broke off an engagement years ago because she gave me an ultimatum to quit working on cars as a hobby in order to have her.

If you'll be married and make a life together, they'll be compromises (like every marriage), but discuss them up front. Don't assume you'll just work things out later. You're also young. What you and she go for at 21 may be very different at 30, etc.

At 52, I just told my teenage Son what my Dad told me in High School; There are a lot of things in life that you won't like and making a living is one of them. Pick something that has a demand and interests you and hopefully isn't regional. Then, no matter how little or much $$$ you make, live within your means. This will allow you to own a home and cars, etc. rather than rent from someone else and work on their toys.[/QUOTE]

Them are some wise words !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I use my degree a ton (graphic designer), although not every job would I need a degree to complete, but I can tell you this... without my degree I wouldn't have made the contacts I needed to do the Odd jobs that really make the money.

I recently was asked to build a picnic table and some planters by a restaurant, their interior designer supplied me with the drawings of what they wanted. Without my degree I wouldn't have made the right contacts to get that job!

Also you have to understand, without a degree now days you just won't make the money as quick as if you do have a degree! My parents were able to not go to college and make it fine but that doesn't work nowdays, especially with kids!!

 

Not unlike our craft...A Mainer boat carpenter was asked what would he do, if he won the lottery?
"Heh, suppose I'd just keep buildin' boats, till the money ran out!"

 

Money never makes you happy,just makes being miserable a lot easier to tolerate.

 

You're getting the benefit of decades of experience from a lot of wise folks. I have to vote with the group urging you to continue your education. With that goal accomplished, you can choose a career path that will offer the best financial reward and future security. With that in place, you can pursue your passion for cars after you've provided for your family and the bills are paid.

Some say "Do what you love and the money will follow". This often works only if you have very low financial expectations. There was a similar HAMB thread a year or two ago, started by someone who was questioning the wisdom of making a major career change by quitting his job and opening his own hot rod shop. Many responses were similar to what we are reading here, but one of the more telling comments was from a fellow who had opened his own shop: "I turned a hobby I loved into a job I hate".

 

i'm impressed that a 21 year old is thinking this out so much. tells me you have a good head on your shoulders. right now, your options are limited. if you finnish school first, you will have all the options.

 

^^this...but i can also tell you why.

I dropped off school to try chasing my dreams, which at 16 were totally silly and unrealistic, left home for good at 18, moved to diff country, did my thing, screwed up with drugs n other bs etc. Dropped at least 2 jobs that could have given me a great career etc......what brought me back on track was my passion for cars, at age 26 more or less, but kept doin mistakes a while longer.
Now im 34, all i got is ''street wise'' because of the way i lived most of my life, which only brought me a shitty job i dont like, earnin close to minimum pay and tryin to build a stupid lowrider daily on the side is takin me close to 6 years as i have to pay the bills too, and it will be another 2 years at least before this car is decent, then guess how long it will take me for a ''proper'' project.
Of course im tryin to do other stuff to earn my bread, but it aint easy with a full time job....dat doesnt pay.
Hope this helps drawin a picture, althou probably a bit extreme.

 

It's all good. Life is what you make of it.

 

You've been advised a buncha times finish what you started, even by me who hates the college ideal that it's become. Remember this if you don't remember anything else.

Every vintage, custom, hot rod, race car, all of em, regardless of how SIGNIFICANT AND HISTORIC they seem to be, could vanish tomorrow. You know what would happen? NOTHING. People would still need to eat, have shelter, dispose of waste, find transportation. None of this is essential to daily life. Not 1 fuckin trim screw of it. There's 20 pages of meaning to that idea. Get 5 of em right you'd be ok, get 10 you'd be better than than ok. Getting all of em simply hasn't happened by even the most sage of car freaks.

 

As some one around you age (Younger actually), living where your living I would suggest a job in a semi related field. Im currently an electrical apprentice and enjoying every minuite of it. Its hands on, lets me build, create and problem solve while putting money in the bank, or well my truck now... But working in a trade has allowed me at 18 to bypass the desk job while still making enough to be able to own an off toppic 72 chevy pickup with all sorts of goodies with enough money to put away and keep the woman happy... keep that in mind and check your facebook, sent you a link to a possible Kustom project. Keep your head up and know there are ways to have the best of both worlds

 

My son and I had this very conversation in 1989 while standing over his 400 turbo he was installing a shift-kit in. He was 15 and wanted to make car repair his avocation.
I thought it over and collected my thoughts before I told him playing with cars/building hotrods was self-satisfying but to look at his high school buddy's fathers. Honestly look at the ones in the automotive trades versus all other trades and get back to me. After a few months he concured that the automotive related households were not as well-off as most of the others.
I asked him "What OTHER things do you really like to do?" He told me he loved playing with/building/repairing computers.
BINGO!
This all happened in the late 80s and early 90s when computers were just starting to take off. I tld him he could stay with us at the house as long as it took to get his degree and as long as he kept at least 12 hrs school going. I'd pay for his food, lodging, laundry, everything except his tuition as I was a simple and poor mechanic, myself. Made enough to buy and keep my house but not enough to pay his tuition and I'll be damned if he didn't take me up on the deal! He secured student loans [all paid off now] That kid stayed with us until he married at 25 years old but he got his computer science degree [or whatever degree he earned to work on high-end computers] and now has a great job with one of the county's biggest telephone companys. He and his wife own a home I'd die for, has 2, 4 car garages and except for his 50 ford coupe, his car list of O/T cars he owns is....well, he does very good for himself and he works out of his home in his own office.
He gets to play with his hotrods when the workload isn't too great and I can't help but compare his work life to mine...
I worked in the automotive trades but was smart enough to work for local government....paid "OK" for working in a shop and came with a helluva retirement/health insurance policy..enough to support 'da kid' while he went to school to have a better lilfe than his ol' man.
Now, he has a 3 year old son of his own. Hope he gives his son 'the talk" when it's time.
Photos are my son the day he got his 1st car and later photos of his house/garages and cars...toys he can afford .

 

Mitchell,

You have a girl you want to marry

That means you are wanting to have a family I assume ?

Everything else follows those decisions



Jim