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Paintjob went wrong - Need advice - Pic Heavy

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ctfortner, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    ctfortner
    Member
    from West TN

    ***Repair work has been done since, my updates to this are on page 17***

    Try to keep this short as I can, just looking for advice on next move. First, my car has been gone for a year and half. I got screwed by a DIFFERENT guy last year, lost $2000, a year of my life, and and got no paint. Bad move, sent car 2 hours away from home. So this is my second attempt at a paintjob.

    I got it home and found another bodyshop I thought was the one. I wrote up a very detailed contract and was signed by both and have everything well documented, receipts, everything.

    6 week paint/body job promised and stated in contract, he knew what I just went through and said that wont happen here. I got the car 6 months and 1 week later after finally saying "I am done and coming to get the car". They then hurried to finish things before I got there a few days later.

    If I listed all issues this would be to long, so I am going to point out some of the worse ones.

    1) They forgot to paint my headlight rings and gas tank door. he took them off the car, so he had them 6 months. I reminded him many, many times, before and after the paintjob, but he still didnt do it. I left them with him for 3 weeks after I picked the car up because each week he promised to paint them, and didnt. For a week he insisted they were in primer and ready to go. I gave him a week after stating that and I finally went by unannounced and picked them up. They werent even sanded, let alone primered. 1 of many lies caught. Good luck for me to match them to the car now because he has NO paint cans left over so I can be sure of code/paint brand used.

    2) It was in our contract that he was to remove all glass for paintjob, reinstall all glass and all new seals, felts, fuzzies, etc.. I bought all new glass and rubbers for him. He hired a glass company to help him install it all, cost me additional $400. Shame on me, I agreed before it happened thinking I would be done perfect that way. Glass leaks, no sealant used, trim half ass inserted, rubber is incorrectly installed on much of windshields, and they left all tape and stickers on the glass :mad::mad: Pretty unprofessional

    [​IMG]

    3) (In contract) - Rust treat and repair inside of doors and be sure of drain holes, etc.. Pics speak for themselves. Passenger door had 1/4" water staning in the bottom of door 3 days after they washed it I finally noticed it. WTF?

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    4) When we loaded the car on the trailer we swiped the front slightly against the trailer, mostly my fault but will be unseen when bumper and lights installed. However it revealed flaky paint over rust that will peal right off. The car wasnt that rusty on the body that I saw when old paint sanded off, but who knows where else there is rust painted over.

    [​IMG]

    5) BAD job aligning passenger side door, now paint has rubbed off fender and door. I didnt know this when I got the car because he LOST the door strikers when painting it, installed the new door seals and used ratchet straps to hold doors shut. So I had to crawl thru the trunk for several days to get in and out so the glue on the seals could dry. When I removed straps and opended door, that happened immediately.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    6) (In contract) Seam seal the drip rail before painting. He has ENSURED me even today they did and got mad when I said they didnt. You can see some old sealer still in there, NO new sealer, and rust appearing already.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    7) Ran out of paint and didnt complete paint underneath trunk lid, said bring back for final touchup and I will paint some more.

    [​IMG]

    8) (In contract) Install new gas tank, straps with rubber, and sending unit. He installed tank. When got home noticed there was NO sending unit and no rubber on the straps. He lost them to, finally found then a week after I got car home. Hell they didnt even get the tank aligned correctly.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    9) (In contract) shave hood ornament. They welded metal in, supposed fiberglassed it, then painted. Already cracking where that was done.

    [​IMG]

    10) Pass side vent window is nearly falling out of door, when open vent there is glass shards everywhere. There was brand new glass used, new rubber used also. Remember I paid $400 for the glass company to do this that wasnt part of original plan.

    11) Chrysler cool vanilla was to be used on the roof. He tried to talk me into "GM White" and mentioned he had some he could show me. You make the call but me, colormatch, and my friends all agree I do NOT have cool vanilla on my roof. Pics not great

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    12) the "lip" of the hood isnt painted. When the hood is shut, you can easily see that its not painted.

    [​IMG]

    13) Fender patch panel was replaced. Paint is already cracking where it was welded and filler used.

    [​IMG]

    14) Bubbles in paint on rear fender well

    [​IMG]

    15) (In contract) Repair hood lip. They welded new metal in and used fiberglass to smooth and shape it. Its already cracking where that was done.

    [​IMG]


    I could continue with little things all day. I was willing to overlook some things, I didnt ask or pay for show quality, but he promised it either way. He said he way underbid the job and told me when I picked it up it should have cost me twice what I paid for it. I disagree 100%.

    I have talked to him, he is a nice guy. However I have arranged for him to come to the house twice to look the car over and get a plan. He has no showed me twice. We planned for a week to meet Sunday, 2 days ago. Even sunday morning he was texting me that he would be there. At 4PM he said I am eating and will call when on the way. He NEVER showed, and I havent heard from him since then, no sorry, no nothing.

    He already lost money on the car probably, he has no paint left over, what motivation would he have to invest a lot of labor and more expensive paint to fix all this, correctly? And honestly the way some things were done, I dont know if I want him to do it anyway, it will likely be a half assed bandaid fix, as cheap and quick as he can. I left the car there 6 months (5 longer than agreed upon, and I dont intend on leaving it again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  2. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    ctfortner
    Member
    from West TN

    There is a large area on the rear that is full of white pinholes is the best I can describe it. The paint is loaded with trash, and I assume this was once trash that was buffed out, I dont know. hard to tell but very noticeable.

    [​IMG]

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    2012-06-19_19-43-34_419.jpg

    2012-06-19_19-43-40_490.jpg

    Most of the jambs are not cleared

    2012-06-19_19-44-01_741.jpg

    Here are the unpainted parts that will probably never match now

    P1090095.jpg

    Door flippers/poppers (if thats what its called was not painted, because it was tucked inside the door when brought home. They pained the jambs on the car and undid them and tucked them in the door when they painted it, and obviously forgot about them

    P1090086.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  3. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 268

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Your contractual items are very typical. They are things I usually end up discussing with the owner when I do a body "restoration". That is what you were looking for, a body restoration. However, it is very evident that you got a paint job. It is always worth giving the shop a chance to meet the contract. You have done that. Even though I do work for people, I think you have no choice but to take him to small claims court. You need to do it now and with your pictures and contract, you have him, IMO. If he is unwilling to fix this ordeal ( and really I would not trust what's under any of the paint ), you have no other recourse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  4. One more reason to like black hotrod primer... preferably applied with a roller and touched up with spray bombs.

    Bob
     
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  5. If I might ask, how much did you pay for this mess?
     
  6. monkeyspunk79
    Joined: Jan 2, 2011
    Posts: 553

    monkeyspunk79
    Member

    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. Did you pay this guy? If you have a contract that stated all those things, and he clearly (pics prove it) didn't perform those tasks, then you're all set. See him in small claims court and get your money back. If you don't want to mess with that action, get a lawyer to write up a nice letter that states he should refund a portion of your money or you'll take him to court. That may be enough. But it could drag out into a big deal.

    From the looks of it, the guy just sprayed over what was there and collected a check. I'm sorry for your headache...I totally understand why you'd be upset. If I saw that front end with the rust and flaking paint, I'd probably blow a gasket. Good luck with this one, and stay in touch. I hope you can get a resolution from this guy quick.
     
  7. Nads
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 11,571

    Nads
    Member
    from Hypocrisy

    When you do it yourself you have only yourself to blame.
     
  8. If I might ask, WHO painted this mess?

    JH
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  9. shinysideup
    Joined: Sep 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,627

    shinysideup
    BANNED
    from ruskin, fl

    Im no paint or body guy but I did all my own work because of this type situation.
     
  10. RADustin
    Joined: Aug 16, 2011
    Posts: 192

    RADustin
    Member
    from Louisiana

    the white pin holes are solvent pops that he sanded out and tried to buff.

    the car needs to be stripped completely and restarted/fixed.

    I'd try a certified letter from a legal dude but taking him to court is going to be $$.

    Good luck.
     
  11. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,153

    belair
    Member

    This is why I learned to do my own work. Take the car to all the local shows and "advertise" his business and the quality of his work. Maybe then he will meet with you.
     
  12. cruisin30
    Joined: Apr 13, 2005
    Posts: 120

    cruisin30
    Member
    from Katy, TX

    You have an excellent small claims court case. I would pursue it.

    What color is the main body painted?
     
  13. Gromit
    Joined: Oct 13, 2011
    Posts: 726

    Gromit
    Member

    I know people who have done what Belair suggested. i don't know if it helped, but they felt better... It's a shame. I read this a while ago and was utterly speachless. I feel for ya. I hope there is recourse for you. I have heard in some cases you cannot sue for incompetance if the guy tried to do the work, but it's clear they have not.

    Best of luck. If you have his email you could send him a link to this thread perhaps.
     
  14. 73super
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 778

    73super
    Member

    I think MAACO would have been a better call. Esshhh.
     
  15. OOOHHHHHHHHH NOOOO looks like another Lawyer is going to add to his kids college fund!!
     
  16. BOWTIE BROWN
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 3,254

    BOWTIE BROWN
    Member

    This is why i like ......
     

    Attached Files:

  17. ryno
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,470

    ryno
    Member

    I see he already chimed in,but I was going to say that since your in tn ,you should hook up with Earl schieb here. Do a search,his stuff speaks for himself. He can maybe help you.
     
  18. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    ctfortner
    Member
    from West TN

    I just wondered if I was being unreasonable here. I have a couple of friends that are real knowledgeable about this stuff like many of yall, I didnt tell him a thing and just let him look it over. In 5 minutes he found all this stuff easily and said no brainer, court. Only way you will be happy. Either court, or just let it go and drive it like it is.

    I thought the pinholes may be solvent pops, but wasnt sure. How do you fix that?

    I dont mind telling who, or how much, but for now I wanted to get opinons without that in the mix. I have read other threads where some will get hung up on what was paid, vs. what was agreed to be done regardless of cost. We had an agreement to go down to metal on entire car and use 2k primer, sealer, PPG deltron paint, and PPG clear. He insisted he wouldnt paint over someone elses work. I did see about half the car down to metal, but didnt get by often enough to confirm it all was.

    The color is corvette atomic orange, assuming he actually got that color, but it does look like it.
     
  19. redlinetoys
    Joined: May 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,302

    redlinetoys
    Member
    from Midwest

    EDIT: I added this post while you were typing yours above. Please don't take offense to the comments on price. Not gouging you at all... Just hoping another guy reading this can avoid this mess.

    I am really, really sorry you have this situation. It is enough to make you walk away from cars for awhile, and it is sickening. Yet, it depends HIGHLY on the price you paid. Was this a $1,000 paint job or an $8,000 paint job because there is a very big difference?

    There is NO way this guy is professional as he cannot make enough money doing this kind of work in months instead of weeks (or days).

    For anyone else reading this thread that is contemplating paintwork, I would highly recommend having a long list of references that you have followed up on before dropping your car off at a painter. The guy I deal with does normal collision work, but he knocks one street rod out a month on the side and they are all done very well. Many are magazine cars. However, you are going to pay a minimum of $50 an hour times 80-100 hours or more to get repair work and refinishing in and out, PLUS paint costs. There is no way you will get out the door for less than 5-6K and more likely it will be 8-10K for a nice job in and out.

    Of course, Maaco will do a fairly simple respray with little to no bodywork for around $800-1,000, but then you expect some of the problems seen above.

    I suspect you paid somewhere in the middle, but I also suspect your painter was a "bargain" painter that does this on the side, and has very few recent references (if any) with any quality work.

    Not trying to beat you up at all. I feel for you. And I love the color combo by the way but agree the Vanilla would have looked nice.

    I have no idea what way to recommend you go, because there is no good route. If it were me, I would consider putting the car back together, touching it up the best that can be done and selling it and moving on with another project before sinking yet more money in, but I think I would talk to an attorney at least as well...

    Good luck. And let us know where this goes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  20. I wrote up a very detailed contract and was signed by both and have everything well documented, receipts, everything

    First thing, take your contract to a lawyer and see if you have a leg to stand on.
    Take it from there. Dollar amounts determine which court hears the case. A small claims court victory costs money and there is very little the court can do to enforce payments. I can put you in touch with hundreds of craftsmen who can personally tell you this, from all sides and combos. Plaintiffs defendants winners loosers.
    A court of common pleas victory costs much much more and does nothing for you if he stops and files bankruptcy on the way out of the courthouse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  21. Flat-Foot
    Joined: Jul 1, 2010
    Posts: 1,704

    Flat-Foot
    Member
    from Locust NC

    That is really some careless work. I would be ashamed to have my name attatched to that work. I hate it for you man, I hope you can work something out to get some of that repaired.
     
  22. Nighthawk756
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 47

    Nighthawk756
    Member

    Ouch, sorry to hear/see it man. Sucks that this makes twice for you.

    I'm like the others....sounds like you had your ducks in a row with the contract. Sounds like a perfect small claims court case to me.

    Keep us up to date on how it shakes out! :(
     
  23. Time for an attorney letter, and if that doesn't prompt him, it's small claims court, for a full refund. IMHO.

    Where in TN is this person located? What's his name or business? I sure don't want to use him on one of mine!
     
  24. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    ctfortner
    Member
    from West TN

    From his comments throughout the process, it was obvious he underbid the job. He gave me a total price job, not by the hour. He looked it over (in primer) for a couple of hours before setting the price. Of course, he didnt know (nor did I) what lies underneath. He started out with a bang, but slowed tremendously and said things like man I underbid, I am going to lose money, but I agreed to do it and I will.

    He is a popular place, everytime I am up there he has 6-8 streetrods being worked on, and I talked to several owners that praise him and say he does all there cars. I had 3 nice ones drive up one day just to BS with him, their cars were very nice as well. Here are 2 I saw in person he did and looked them over. These 2 owners were very pleased.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    here is a pic of whole car, from 10' its a beauty.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. godswill
    Joined: Jun 14, 2009
    Posts: 37

    godswill
    Member
    from san jose

    There is a big difference between a body shop and a restoration shop. Most people dont know how to tell the difference. I do know a few body shops tha get down with wit super nice quality work, but thos are few and far between. I tell people all the time " if u want pizza , dont go to the taco stand". As said in a previous post, talk to somebody with a pain job u like and get info on painters, if u are interested in having somebody do work then ask for refernces or ask around and listen to your gut feeling. Ther are guys that do it because they love it and have pride in what they do and there are guys that do it because thats the only thing they know and dont want to flip burgers. I really feel bad for you but I really believe you could have done some research on this guy.
     
  26. FatChrist Magic
    Joined: Jun 4, 2012
    Posts: 66

    FatChrist Magic
    Member

    You seem like a very reasonable person. I encourage you to continue to work with this guy to resolve the situation. Explain that you have been very patient because you expected to receive exceptional work, as agreed upon. Appeal to his sense of responsibility and the importance of a gentleman's word. Give him the opportunity to propose a solution, respond with a counter-proposal, etc.... at least now you are negotiating. But if none of this is effective, defer to the professionals and find a good lawyer to represent you. More often than not, a strongly worded letter from a law office is enough to make folks come around to revisiting the possibility of reconciliation without the assistance or expense of the courts..
     
  27. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 268

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    I don't care what you paid, To me, makes no difference. You had/have a contract and it wasn't met; end of case. I do my work hourly and with pay draws along the way. If at anytime there were a problem, the owner could take the car and walk. This way we both are up to date on what is happening and what the costs are running. It works for me.
    I'm pretty sure he did not strip the entire body and things are rushed. It's not what you wanted.
     
  28. godswill
    Joined: Jun 14, 2009
    Posts: 37

    godswill
    Member
    from san jose

    Regardless of how it turned out, he should make it right. I dont know the guy , but if he is a good businessman he doesnt want an unsatisfied customer . all it takes is one person to ruin your reputation.
     
  29. Gator
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,016

    Gator
    Member

    Wow. I'm also curious as to who this hack is...
     
  30. Scarebird
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 849

    Scarebird
    Alliance Vendor
    from ABQ, USA

    The klinker for me is the color the top was painted - it was not what you spec'd out, more likely what he had laying about. To me that tells me he charged you for paint he did not buy, and the mindset you are dealing with here.
     

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