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Technical Painting: What respirator ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ekimneirbo, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Let me do some digging, Im currently searching this for school
     
  2. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    simple tips for the guy at home

    Use gloves as much as possible, not just for safety but to avoid problems.
    Skin oils will can show up all the way to the base material.

    Clean Clean
    Soap and water is great. Simple and cheap. I don't like car wash soaps until after its painted. Dawn dishwashing liquid is hard to beat.
    There are a million products to clean before priming/painting and procedures depending on what you are spraying over and with what.

    How do I prep sandblasted metal, soda blasted metal, OE finishes, over existing lacquer, over unknown aftermarket paint? Cant tell ya. Every situation is different. There are several threads here discussing these. Look em up here and online. No reason to restart those discussions again.
    Paint lines have different procedures and products, look em up. many have cool videos.
    Epoxy and etching products have different procedures, look em up.
    Do I need a metal conditioner, when and how do I use them? That info is on the tech sheet. Look em up.
    The how and when is on the product tech sheet for the cleaner. Here is an example
    https://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/product-Search.aspx?searchtext=dx579&searchmode=anyword
    this will get you to the hows for PPGs DX cleaners.

    Don,t have any fancy paint cleaners, denatured alcohol, acetone, liter fluid, ammonia based glass cleaners are some home brew options.
     
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  3. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    We are frantically putting together online lesson for students
    these links are some I may use
    http://www.chess-safety.com/images/stories/0406_respirators_isocyanates_spray_painting.pdf
    https://pksafety.com/blog/urethane-paint

    when looking this stuff up, a get some different answers
    exposure time and environment are important
    spraying catalyzed paint in a poorly ventilated environment is bad no matter what equipment is used.
    PPM or the saturation of chemical vapor in the painting area is the other large factor. How quickly the bad air is removed and amount of contaminants created so if you can produce less contaminants such as using an HVLP gun, the PPM of that area is reduced.
    Using a gun that produces less overspray is a start. That would eliminate the old number 7 Binks.
    Using a full face respirator with organic vapor filters in a well ventilated area would be next.
    The best will be a supplied air set up.
    They may not mention the paint type by name, but rather the hazard presented by the paint.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  4. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Here is some paint gun trouble shooting guides. This one is for you siphon cup guys
    A lot of the info is good for HVLP and RP guns
    An RP gun is a gun that looks like an HVLP but operates on higher air pressure that meet or exceed the EPAs material transfer efficiency standards. ( more paint on the car, less paint in the air. The minimum is 65% transfer)
    http://www.elliottequipment.com/MediaLibraries/ElliottEquipment/PDFs/Ask Elliott/Spray_Gun_Fan_Pattern_Troubleshooting.pdf
    A generic spray pattern guide
    https://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/support/spray-gun-troubleshooting.aspx
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  5. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Here is a simple gun set up video.


    there are a lot more but this one is short and simple.
    You need an air pressure gauge at the gun.
    And I guess the guy is like me in class and not wearing the PPE cause ya got to talk.:)
    The fluid control is the one that moves the needle. The fan control can be inline with it or located on the side of the gun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  6. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,639

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks AM for taking the time to post all this info.
    I started another paint thread a while back about the Duplicolor line and got some good info. This is great. I’m on hold right now due to the weather, it’s 100+ everyday and I’m working outside.
    I too want to be sure that I use an effective mask/filter for the lacquer-ish products I’m using.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  7. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Welcome
    Just sharing info I’m using for students.
    I teach high school students so I try to use simple explanations. That’s why my posts look like they do.
    I’m sure the pros can pick em apart and that’s ok
    Keep us posted on the lacquer. Im curious myself. I started on the tail end of lacquer being used and have only played with lacquer paints.
    My uncle restored grand pianos, his black lacquer paint jobs was the slickest, deepest paint I have ever seen.
    Guys may mess with you about it’s longevity but even the newest paints have a short life span. Both products longevity are based on environment, exposure and upkeep. Just like us.
     
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  8. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,617

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    You are on a roll Anthony, keep it coming. This is great stuff!;)

    On the air supplied respirator set up. Here are some pictures of the stuff my neighbor gave me. It looks like there are a couple good "slip on" hoods with corrugated hoses and belt clips. The air enters at the back of the hood which seems convenient for painting. Then there are a couple of Scott masks that look well made but the hose enters under the chin. I could get some of those head socks to work with them but wonder about the air hose getting in new paint. What do you think?
    Oh, the pump is a Bullard brand and I have another one thats a little smaller. I need to get it out and take a look at it too.
    DSCN2382.JPG
    DSCN2377.JPG
    DSCN2398.JPG
     
  9. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,617

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I know there are different opinions on this, but I always adjust my air pressure back where the hose leaves the regulator instead of right at the gun. I also use the larger industrial fittings in my hoses (for all my air tools) because I think volume is just as important as pressure. It may not make any difference, but it can't hurt anything either. I always thought the automotive fittings had awfully small holes thru them.
    Air Flow.JPG
     
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  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,583

    belair
    Member

    Can someone post a list of the most dangerous/toxic paints and the "safest"? How do they compare, what is best practice for each?
     
  11. There really isn't a difference of opinion. Every gun and paint manufacturer gives their pressure recommendations at the gun not at the wall.
     
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  12. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 3,237

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And people ask everyday why it costs so much to paint a car :rolleyes: If I'm not getting paid I'll go lay in the pool. There's a big difference in prolonged exposure, acute exposure, e.t.c. you paint everyday, you go supplied air system, you're gonna paint your old hot rod, get a good paint respirator, head sock, wear pants and a long sleeve shirt, rubber gloves etc, and go take a shower when you're done. Make sure you've got good ventilation. It's not really rocket surgery. Come crawl into burning houses with me and let's sit and talk about carcinogens ;) have fun painting that old car my brother :D
     
  13. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 2,991

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Bullard is a decent supplied air source, we used them for portable supplied air where I worked. it's OK to have the regulator by the compressor, but it is best to have a pressure gauge at the paint gun so you can set the pressure to be right. You will have no problems if you use the hood where the air enters in the back.
     
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  14. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Im with ya on the fittings. There are 2 advantages.
    1 Proper CFM. Especially for HVLP
    2 An air hose with odd fittings doesn’t end up getting drug through a nasty shop with oily air tools hooked up to em.

    As far as the regulator at the gun, if you are used to setting up your gun that way and achieve the desired results, then go for it.
    I really do not like the extra length to the gun they add. I haven’t purchased myself a gun with a digital PSI gauge yet.
     
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  15. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 3,237

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    If you're using supplied air, just tape or zip tie the supply hose to your air hose for your paint gun, it's not that hard to deal with. I had one for years.
     
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  16. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    That hood set up looks more protective than the automotive fresh air hoods I have used.
    If it seals the face and supplies fresh air, what more can ya ask for.
     
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  17. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    They are all bad.
    Every paint has a Safety Data Sheet. They are accessed just like the Technical Data Sheet.
    The ingredients, exposure limits, symptoms ....will be listed.
    As far as the most toxic goes I have flat refused to use Emron.
     
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  18. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,865

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    As to the old system , before I trusted it to keep me breathing , I'd think there might be somewhere to have it checked to make sure its working properly ?? Or how you might be able to check it .
     
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  19. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    This subject of “shop toxic hazards” is a current topic for myself. The younger me listened to the warnings but didn’t always do the necessary steps. After preparing things for class the past 2 weeks, taking a safety course this week, and finding out a painter friend of mine was just diagnosed with Parkinson’s, has ‘woke’ my awareness.
    You either change professions or pay attention.
    So I guess I will pay much better attention from now on. I can’t redo the past 30 years but I can affect the next.
    But we need to understand it’s length and amount of exposure. Plus it’s all the other things we overlook through out our time on the shop. We complain about new carb cleaners but don’t realize that maybe the old cleaner was worse for our health.
     
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  20. This kind of comparison leads to bad things. None of them are safe and you should really be taking the same precautions when using any of them. Nobody knows how an individuals body will react to any of these products until it has had to and then it may be too late. I don't like to pick on guys like Lloyd but I hate when people make comments like his because he doesn't know, no one knows for sure how much exposure is needed to cause irreparable damage and if that varies from person to person.
     
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  21. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Here is a lacquer thinner SDS (safety data sheet)
    Each to find.
    http://www.kleanstrip.com/uploads/documents/GML170_SDS-1605.48.pdf
    It will list the bad and safety precautions

    it lists a NIOSH approved organic vapor respirator if using in a well ventilated area.
     
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  22. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    NIOSH. These guys test the equipment A division of the CDC
    OSHA. Regulates workplace safety. A division of the Department of Labor
    ANSI. A non profit organization. They develop procedures that can be adopted as standards by agencies such as OSHA
     
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  23. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 3,237

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Pick on me all ya want, I'm a big guy, i can take it ;)
     
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  24. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,143

    squirrel
    Member

    If I quit now, I'll probably be fine....eh?

    This could be part of the "paint vs patina" discussion. It's safer to leave the old cars as they are.
     
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  25. texasred
    Joined: Dec 3, 2008
    Posts: 1,082

    texasred
    Member
    from Houston

    ^^^^ There is that "word" again aaahhhhhhhhhh!!!
     
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  26. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    At least pay better attention to safety.
    And yes, it’s a great reason to leave a cars paint as found.
     
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  27. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,622

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Quit?
    I don’t like that one either unless it’s a bad habit
     
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  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,143

    squirrel
    Member

    I pay attention to safety, but don't do everything I probably should be doing. I make up for it by limiting my exposure...I go a few years between paint jobs, most of the time.
     
  29. texasred
    Joined: Dec 3, 2008
    Posts: 1,082

    texasred
    Member
    from Houston

    "patina"
     
  30. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,260

    Gman0046
    Member

    A good friend of mine has been in the "auto body business" for about 40 years. He just packed it in and retired. Says hes lucky hes still alive after all that exposure and going to enjoy the time hes got left. Smart guy.
     

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