Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Painting and bodywork question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Alt, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    Hello all. I've come across varying opinions on the following issue.

    If I'm planning to have a professional shop paint my car, what is recommended when it comes to the extent of bodywork I do on my own?

    The issue revolves around whether or not a paint shop will insist upon stripping the car to bare metal (or close) before painting so they can control and guarantee all work.

    The two approaches:

    1. I perform rust remediation, necessary patch panels, any additional metal work, apply and finish filler - then take to painter for final primer, prep, and paint.

    2. I perform rust remediation, necessary patch panels, any additional metal work, and keep the body in nothing more than primer/sealer to prevent rust - then take to painter who will strip it, complete all filler work, prep, and paint.

    Obviously the 2nd option would cost more, but I'd hate to do more work (body filler and finishing) only to have difficulty finding a good painter who doesn't want to paint over prep/filler work they didn't complete.

    What is the wisest way to go about this?
     
  2. Depends on what your skill set is and what your willing to pay .

    I usually completely strip the car of trim , chrome, glass etc .

    clean it ( door jambs , trunk under the hood etc very well.

    cut out and either fully weld or fit and tack in patch panels

    and sand the complete car.

    then I hand it over to the pros to finish.
    I don’t have the patience to do good body work, and up here the body shops I deal with would rather do the filler and priming etc them selves and use there own product to be sure of a quality finish.

    metal work, welding , pulling out dents and the initial cleaning snd sanding and dismantling knocks a big chunk off the bill.

    once the paint is done I will usually get the body shop to install the glass and do the rest of the assembly myself.


    I did a few cars where I had it completely blown apart and after painting the doors fenders etc . I would go to the body shop and assemble for final paint to keep costs down.

    Any grunt work you can do yourself will keep costs down
     
    rockable, 427 sleeper and fauj like this.
  3. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 5,134

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If someone brings a car to me that they have prepped and just want me to paint it, I'll gladly do that, i just don't guarantee it.
     
  4. fastcar1953
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,579

    fastcar1953
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Most of them around here want to do it all or nothing. It's their name on it.
     
    427 sleeper, RMR&C, 56don and 2 others like this.

  5. And that is the issue. Most body shops don't want to finish someone else's work as poor prep makes for poor paint jobs the painter is blamed for.
     
    427 sleeper, RMR&C and VANDENPLAS like this.
  6. larry k
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 388

    larry k
    Member

    If you wanted your car painted at the rod shop I worked for ,it would cost you 30 to 40% more if you wanted to help or got involved in the work itself. either you wanted them to paint it or you didn’t ???
     
    427 sleeper, VANDENPLAS and G-son like this.
  7. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 5,134

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Oh i guarantee what i do. How can i guarantee something i didn't do? But sometimes you've just gotta go with what's going on. If a man wants to work on his own car up to a point and then pay someone to finish it, then yeah I'll help out with that. This is a business. And i need to make money to survive. I'm looking at 3 jobs in my shop at this very second that came from other body shops that couldn't fulfill whaty they said they would do, and the first agreement between me and the owner is i don't guarantee what's been done. Unless they want to pay me to wipe another bodymans ass. I've probably sprayed 10 cars this year that were brought here prepped. All i did was tape, wipe, and tack. If you tell me it's ready then who am i to question you? It's your car.
     
    lostmind, safetythird, A 2 B and 8 others like this.
  8. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,009

    Budget36
    Member

    That’s been my experience as well.
     
  9. Asking here is useless. No one here can tell you what the painters in your area will or will not do. When you get the metal work done start calling painters in your area and and ask them.
     
    WalkerMD and A 2 B like this.
  10. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    Good point. While I could do the filling and priming I'm no pro, so might as well let them handle what they're good at.

    Makes sense. No one wants to put their name on something they're unsure of.

    I know I can't get an absolute answer here, but I wouldn't say it's useless. Saves me from possibly starting bodywork that's either going to get re-done or negate any guarantee from whoever paints it.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  11. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,740

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you can do decent metal repair and bodywork there is no reason you can't paint it yourself and control the whole process
     
    Fogger, WalkerMD, lostmind and 5 others like this.
  12. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,059

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    As has been mentioned, one of the problems is that many shops don't work on your car in a timely manner and then later you have to take it to another body shop after waiting an extended time. If you get your car blasted before taking it to them and they let it sit while they work on a more profitable car, the body will start to rust. Unless you are looking for some show car finish, or special effects.........I'd just consider doing it yourself. Get the body stripped and bodywork done and prime it yourself.
    Get a hood or even a junk car and try spraying some of it to get the hang of it. Often you can find someone who knows how to paint that would come "help you spray" or come spray it for you .

    I don't blame any quality painter for not wanting to guarantee something that was partially done by someone else. If however you use a quality name brand primer and they use the same brand of paint.....probably much less chance of problems. If its a solid color, problems are often easily repaired. So part of the question is how much quality you are looking for and the type (solid/metalic) you want.

    So what are you looking for and what color do you want?
     
  13. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    That's always in the back of my mind too. My only worry is if I rely on myself to do everything, it would take forever. If I had more than a small 1.5 car garage, I feel like I'd make more progress, but sometimes handing it off for certain portions feels like the only way to get it done.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  14. JimSibley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 3,398

    JimSibley
    Member

    I have been doing this for 35 years. If i were in your shoes, i would do all of the metal work, disassembly, sandblasting, or sanding of the original finish. I would pay a competent shop to do the paint and body work, and then i would re-assemble it myself. Upon completion i would then pay a pro to cut, buff and fix and blemishes caused while
    Assembling the car.
     
  15. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    So as it sit currently, I had it blasted to bare metal and then sprayed it with Eastwood epoxy primer in my garage. I've been slowly doing some metalwork and re-spraying those areas as they get finished so it's not sitting around in bare metal.

    End goal is a decent paint job that looks semi-professional. I don't want to get things finished and feel like "well, the paint looks kinda ok but could be way better." Color won't be metallic or flaked, will likely be something solid and relatively dark.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  16. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    Sounds like an absolutely solid plan. Now I've gotta find a shop and figure out how much $$ that'll cost.
     
  17. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,059

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    You know, that putting color on isn't really that hard and you can sand out your mistakes. Then spray the clear coat on . Sand out any mistakes there and buff to a beautiful finish. I would get an old hood and try it once before you decide...............solid colors and clear coat can be made to look awfully good if you just give it a try.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  18. CME1
    Joined: Aug 10, 2010
    Posts: 195

    CME1
    Member

    I have had three cars that I prepped, did the disassembly and helped with block and sanding at the paint shop. And then had the paint shop do the painting. After painting, I re-assembled the parts. I also helped with the final cut and buff. Had great people I worked with!
     
  19. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 754

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    Just a observation from your post, maybe you do not have a current relationship with a paint & body guy.
    Just really sad how many get a car into "paint jail" then getting work finished or even the car back is a incredible feat.

    You really want to know & trust who you are sending your car to.
    Nobody thinks it is cheap, you do want it fair.

    Was a standing joke down at the local tow yard. A guy paid $3500 to have a car paint ready painted.
    A 60's something merc that looked like a Torino fast back, red with a black stripe down the top.
    When the painter removed the tape for the black stripe, he removed fresh paint of both colors.
    Pretty sure was just Rustoleum paint from tractor supply. All good with me.

    But the owner wanted touch up done to fix the boo boo's from the tape ... painter wanted more money.
    Then the painter stole the new headers and the new holley carb.
    The owner had a tow company and police pick it up, then a mechanics lean was slapped on it and a court battle and sat in impound for months. .... No clue how it turned out, he may have lost the car over the painter.

    Only advice I could give, get over to @Lloyd's paint & glass
    Give him a hug, bring his wife some flowers ... get a relationship started before you turn over your car to a painter.
    Or paint it yourself :)
     
  20. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    You're right, I do not currently have a relationship with a paint and body guy. I knew one, but he's getting a bit older and not taking any new work. Would love to work with a fellow HAMBer but Lloyd is about 9 hours away!
     
  21. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 5,134

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Right here, what Mike said. There are probably 4 trailer loads of takeoff doors, hoods, fenders, quarter panels, tops, e.t.c laying in my scrap, I'd love for somebody to come take all they want. And I'd guess most shops are the same, not all, but most would give you anything you wanted out of their scrap. You can practice painting until your heart is content, and just throw them away. And for the price you're gonna pay someone else, you can have some of the best equipment out there. Doing all of the metal work, filler work, blocking, etc, is the hard part, might as well get the glory and spray it too. I understand that not everybody wants to paint a car, and I'm glad of it, but it's not rocket surgery, you can always fix what you mess up.
     
  22. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 5,134

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Awwww you're too nice ;) but hug my wife, and give me them flowers :D:D:D
     
  23. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 5,134

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And Lloyd is booked up for a stupid amount of time lmao! Do me a favor, check around, find a few shops, go check them out. Ask for references! If there are cars sitting there that look like workbenches, walk out and don't look back! Pick a couple of the cars sitting there and ask who owns them, ask for their number so you can get a reference. If the shop won't give you that info, it's because they haven't touched the car, they've took money from the owner, there's probably tension between the shop and owner, and it's not a shop you want to take your car to. Just do your homework, then it'll be enjoyable. Plus, if shit sounds to good to be true, that's because it is.
     
    427 sleeper, Budget36 and Tman like this.
  24. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    Good advice and will do.

    Curious, does this sound like an accurate middle-of-the-ballpark to you? Let me know if I'm WAY off...
    - Filler work & blocking: $15k
    - Prime & paint only: $10K
     
  25. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,404

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Someone find a shop that guarantees something they do not do?
    For me, the savings for the customer would be the owner tearing down, strip/blasting and the owner doing the bulk of the reassembly.
    Sheet metal needs fit on a rolling chassis.
    the body work needs to be completed on a rolling g chassis.
    The owner can save a ton of$$ by doing their own chassis work.
    If you are capable of performing the rust repair, properly fit and welded, I would suggest doing that. Especially for floors.
    It all depends on your skill, the shop that finishes the paint work and your desired results.

    edit:
    If you handle any sandblasting for sheet metal, make sure a competent person does it. You can cost yourself a ton of $$$$ when the wrong guy blasts it.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  26. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    I've already replaced the floors, both rockers, lower-half of each quarter panel, and patched major rust areas. I've still got some minor metal work stuff I'd like to do, but not a ton. The only replies I've gotten from shops around me quote something like 300-600 hours of body work (@ $70/hour) and then $10-$15K for paint.

    Unfortunately I'm not really seeing the "save a ton of $" having done what I've done.
     
  27. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,404

    anthony myrick
    Member

    I do.
    Multiply all the hours you spent X $70 per hour.
     
    427 sleeper and VANDENPLAS like this.
  28. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,404

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Hard to estimate by looking at pictures.
    Even harder without them
     
  29. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,009

    Budget36
    Member

    Well, takes a good body man to prep something for a good paint job.
    I’m not a math major, but I’m seeing 21k to 42k off your hours an wage.
     
  30. Alt
    Joined: Jul 28, 2017
    Posts: 72

    Alt
    Member
    from Michigan

    I probably worded that wrong. I was reading Anthony's advice as "if you can do the sheet metal/rust repair/welding" that you'd save a ton. The 300-600 hours of time sounded like a lot of hours for filling/blocking to me.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.