Well so far what I've done is replace lower radiator hose, remove the tranny cooler that was closest to the grill and made a smaller setup for in the right side frame rail, I removed the elec fan that was in front of the condenser, now only condenser in front of the radiator, then I removed the elec fan and shroud after the radiator next to water pump pulley and put four 3" holes in shroud at each corner and removed every other plastic circle of the shroud and reinstalled. I got side tracked on other problems I found but...here are some more pictures.
so, you do realize that with those holes in place, air being pulled by the fan will come in through the holes instead of being drawn through the radiator, right? You're going to need to plug them off somehow to prevent that.
Those holes in the shroud need to have flaps. When the car sitting still and fan running the flaps should get sucked closed. Whe the car is moving and road speed air is forced thru thru the radiator the flaps can get pushed open. As it shows now, hot engine compartment air gets sucked in the holes and out by the fan, never passing thru the radiator.
The picture showing the radiator cap is if you make a level line to the heater connections they are about 4" or more higher then the radiator cap. Don't know if that makes a diff or not.
I think that is a problem. You are going to have an air pocket in there, and that will screw things up for you. It will be hard to purge the system.
We had material handlers that the cab was higher than the radiator and they had a hydralic lift that raised them 8 feet higher and there was never a problem getting coolant into the heater. The water pump creates pressure on one hose and lower pressure on the other.
That's fine, once the system is full, but when filling the system it can be difficult to get the air out of the system. BTW, air pockets in diesel engines is the #1 killer of EGR coolers, it's a well known problem, at almost epidemic levels out there.
Put a valve at the highest point of the heater system to burp it. You can probably find something like this at your local junkyard.
If the coolant is in the radiator longer for cooling, then the coolant in the engine is picking up more heat. Slowing down the coolant flow is not a solution to fix an overheating problem. The following is copied from another post of mine, dispute it if you want but there is science that supports it. The "coolant moving too fast through the system to cool" theory has been debated at length on this site, and science has proved it wrong. For those that cling tenaciously to myths, I am going to take one last crack at forever dispelling the Granddaddy of them all when it comes to cooling systems. The myth is stated as either: Coolant can be pumped too fast through the engine for it to absorb enough heat, or Coolant can be pumped too fast through the radiator for it to cool properly, or Cooling can be improved by slowing the flow of coolant through the radiator so it cools more completely. NONE of these is true. The simple truth is that higher coolant flow will ALWAYS result in higher heat transfer and improved cooling system performance. The reason the myth is so persistent, is that: a) without knowledge of fluid dynamics and laws of thermal conduction it does make a kind of intuitive sense and b) it is based on a tiny kernel of truth, but that kernel of truth does not explain the overall system behaviour and so, interpreted out of context, leads to a completely erroneous conclusion. So, let's start with the tiny nugget of truth. If you had a sealed rad (no flow) full of hot coolant, and subjected that rad to airflow, yes, the longer you left the coolant in the rad, the more it would cool. However, if you were to plot that cooling over time, you would find that the RATE at which the cooling takes place is an exponential curve that decreases with the temperature difference between the hot coolant and the air. Put another way - when the temperature difference (delta-T) between the hot coolant and the airflow is large, heat transfer (cooling) initially takes place very, very quickly (almost instantaneously). But as that happens, and the coolant cools, the delta-T becomes less, and the RATE at which further cooling happens gets less and less until the point where the coolant and air are almost the same temperature and continued cooling takes a very long time. This is Newton's law of cooling. To illustrate this lets look at a "quenching steel in a bucket" analogy. A good example of this law can be seen when quenching a red-hot piece of steel in a bucket of water. At first, the temperature difference (delta-T) between the red-hot steel and the water is huge - therefore the initial heat transfer occurs at a great rate - the steel initially cools very fast - almost instantaneously. However, after this initial cooling, the delta-T is much smaller, so the remaining cooling occurs much more slowly. If you removed the steel after a second or two - it has cooled a lot - but it will still be warm. To continue cooling the steel to the temp. of the water, you have to leave it in there quite a bit longer - because as it cools - the rate of cooling continually decreases as well. In short - initial cooling is fast, but subsequent cooling occurs more and more slowly until cooling that last little bit takes a long time. So what does this mean? Basically it means, the longer the coolant stays in the rad, the less efficient the cooling that takes place is - to the point that the rate of cooling is so slow as to be detrimental to overall system cooling. Better to dump the big load of heat right away and go back quickly for another load than hang about waiting for a last little bit of insignificant cooling to happen.
Read the same thing many years ago on the wall of a radiator shop, poster was from Harris, as I recall.
Is part of the upper radiator hose higher than the top tank? That would trap air. When I fill an engine with coolant I use one of the heater hoses which gets the majority of the air out. I run a 180* stat on my SBC, Champion aluminum radiator, flex fan with a shroud. It runs 180* unless I sit a long time in traffic. Have you checked the upper and lower hoses and radiator tanks, are they about the same temperature when hot?
Ebbsspeed Super interesting for sure. thank you for the information and now I think I'll take out the 195 and try a 180. Great stuff neil
Well today I got sidetracked with other problems like a leaking master cylinder and the rear end housing is not tracking straight' It is a 9" Ford with leafs and it is dog tracking about 1' to the right in other words the right side is an inch behind the left. So I put in a new MC and bled the entire system. Tomorrow I will somehow shift the rear end straight and put in a 180 T-stat, fill it with tap water and flush everything out while watching for leaks, drain and put in a 50/50 coolant mix and add a bottle of the wetter water stuff. I would put a valve in my heater line bot not sure about the braided hoses. neil
Never had a problem in 35 years on 12 machines with heaters in cabs at least 4 feet above radiator cap with Detroits, Cummins, Deutz and Liebherr engines. The systems were drained too often to repair other problems.
Taking her for a spin this afternoon and see. I have not installed a 180 T-stat yet, and I didn't put flaps over the 3" holes in the electric fan shroud yet, and I haven't added the bottle of Wetter Water I got either so we'll see what makes the biggest diff as this progresses. I think it's gonna be 104 today ....
Wait a minute, you never had a problem; but you had problems that required you to drain the system. So you did have problems....
Surprised at all the electric fan haters. Ever look at any modern front wheel drive cars with side way mounted engines? Seems electric fans work for few million OEM cars. I even used one on sideways mounted intercooler for a turbo car..
Did you get lost maybe? Sometimes, "SOME" you need to use an electric fan. Generally it's because of poor planning or maybe even some really cool extenuating circumstances. I am more than reasonably certain when I tell you this,,, traditional hot rods don't have electric fans. Run one if you have too but don't think anyone could honestly call it traditional. I'm also more than reasonably certain that no mechanical fan failure has been the cause of overheating. That's because mechanical fans don't have grounds, brushes, fuses, relays, wires, or switches that fail and prevent the fan from working.
I saw " modern front wheel drive cars" and almost threw up. But what's up with the OP? Is he going to start listening to our advise? Is his car good Now? Is he still on a break? Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Post 107 says he's going to take it for a Spin. That was on Monday. My guess is everything is working so well he's still driving trying to make up for all the lost time behind the wheel. He also has an Extremely Large smile on his face. The Wizzard
Okay...got a mi-noot background in what you've experienced...so spill the whole story... Kinda like how a Big Cam Cummings can't over heat, unless lugged...why..well look at the cooling system So, my uneducated guess is that those who designed those systems you speak of, designed them to work...or.. Are you saying..."let's put a SBC in the chassis, and run heater hoses up 10 feet to the tree house, and we got hot water up there"? Ya kinda think, maybe when the setup was designed, they took a few extra steps? But, really what I find odd about what you speak of, is they actually uses a coolant line running up, and subject to constant motion, not being a design engineer, I think I'd rather deal with one wire, running a 12v heater...also would like to isolate an AC unit as well...but that's another topic.
I don't think it's anything to do with fans or water wetters or air in the heater lines. The 12º initial is ok. The 34º doesn't mean much to me because it doesn't say what RPM or if that was on a dyno at a constant speed but you have yet to say if it's getting hot driving on Van Buren St. in traffic or at 70 on the 101 loop. If it is running ok at 2200 RPM/70 MPH but doing the overheating at lower RPMs I suspect you either don't have a Vacuum advance hooked up or you have it hooked up to the wrong vacuum source. "Timed" vacuum is the wrong source for street driving. It should be sourcing FULL TIME MANIFOLD VACUUM or it will definitely over heat at low RPM as in traffic. If you don't have a vacuum advance hooked up it will definitely over heat in traffic. Read this please: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/manifold-vs-ported-vacuum-article-i-just-read.783034/
Not with keeping them cool. German engineering. Water pumps failed at 1000 hours and were replaced under warranty. The front engine covers weren't properly machined and had to be removed and ground down to prevent gasket failure under warranty. The coolant hoses ran through the belt guard and the belts had to be replaced every 2000 hours so every year the system had to be drained. The coolant hoses weren't oil resistant and turned to mush from hydraulic oil leaks which were plentiful. Running joke was that Liebherr is German for leaker. The speed controls on the heater fan motors failed so the heaters had to be removed to replace the fan unit. Aluminum radiators, hydraulic oil coolers and charge air coolers all leaked and had to be removed as a unit. Yes the systems were drained often but never any trouble with air locks in the heaters.
Never keep a mostly glass cab warm let alone the windows defrosted at below zero temperatures with a 12v heater in below zero weather. When they were left outside and it got colder than -15f we would put a 1500 watt AC heater To start equipment in cold weather we used quick couplers connected to the heater hoses in a pickup truck to the heater hoses on the material handlers to circulate warm coolant into equipment that was 5 feet higher than the truck. It would still circulate through the cab heater. No special pump, just the stock pump on a truck that came in as scrap. Some dirt track drivers put the radiators in the vehicle to avoid the dirt plugging them up. Some connected an auxiliary radiator to the heater connections for added cooling in the rear deck of their car with a stock Chevy water pump. No special engineering required.
I know we're getting off track here, but if the others will excuse us for a little, I spent a LOT of time working with Bomag 605 landfill compactors that used a Deutz air-cooled diesel engine. They used a cab heater mounted on the side of the cab that burned diesel fuel. Had it's own little fuel pump to draw fuel from the main tank, and then a little oil burner on the side of the cab with it's own cute little exhaust pipe. They worked well when they worked, but they had a overly complex electronic control circuit that failed too often. Typically the failed part was mounted on a circuit board that was encased in epoxy, and was not serviceable, so the entire board (expensive!) had to be replaced. OK, digression over, back to the overheating 350 discussion!
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