Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Overheating 350 SB

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 57 shaker, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    Hey 49 ford coupe that is some amazing stuff you did, man I can't get over what you did. The problem I have is I'll be taking the big dirt nap before I got 1/10 of what you did finished :). I think I'll be looking at all your Mods the rest of the day, you gave me the mother load.
     
    '49 Ford Coupe likes this.
  2. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    You might be right that could do it
     
  3. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    I was thinking about that when I looked at my rear elec. fan it has a shroud around it and when the fan is off it must be blocking the flow. Funneling the air through the rad with the least amount of restrictions could be it.I know that tranny cooler could be moved, that would get one thing out of the flow, now where to put it where it would still do it's job but not look real bad...
     
  4. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    I'll to send more pics of the engine bay maybe I could spread some of the blocking chumks to different spots. I wouldn't have a chance to fix my problem if it wasn't for you people, seriously. Right now it's early morning and it's almost daylight and I'm excited to go out there with more ways to look at this. Thank you ! I'llbebock
     
  5. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,262

    Gman0046
    Member

    57 shaker, from the pictures you've posted I can't tell what that sheet metal over the top of and in front of the radiator really looks like (picture 3). It doesn't look right to me. Maybe you could post some more pictures of that area.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  6. Well, Shaker....I appreciate your appreciation... Did you check out the "Transmission, Chapter 1" and "Transmission, Chapter 2"?.. That's the latest... Am awaiting "Dana" to get back to me with some prices for parts..so right now she is up on tall jackstands... Just got an O2 sensor gauge and installed it but won't be able to do any carb adjustments till she's back on the road. Don't know if you saw it but I was going to use a 16" single fan but there was no way in hell that it would fit, even with my short water pump and distributor 1/2" from the firewall, so I had to switch plans and use 2-10" fans on the corners so the water pump sticks in between them...
     
  7. RamJet1
    Joined: Apr 9, 2012
    Posts: 345

    RamJet1
    Member

    You have already received more info than you can shake a stick at, but I'm going to toss in my $.02 anyway, ha ha ha.
    The shroud for the engine-side fan, and the fan caging itself, sure seems to block a lot of air. That's certainly the majority of your problem at freeway speeds. some people cut holes in those and attach either sprung metal flaps, or rubber flaps, that open as you go faster to let the air through. Dual fans that cover more area back there would be good, or if you can fit a mechanical fan with a basic shroud would do too.
    Our O/T '66 El Camino father-son project has an aluminum cross-flow radiator with a mechanical fan and a really basic shroud, essentially a flat piece of stainless with mounting tabs curved around the fan. In stop and go traffic, for miles, with an ambient temperature of 100°, and the car generally stays at 200°. I know my application has more space for air, so hopefully it's not apples to oranges here.
     

    Attached Files:

    Donuts & Peelouts likes this.
  8. I'll throw this into the info pile for you. Trans Coolers, Yes you need something and most are an over kill. The accessory ones came on line for work trucks that were towing trailers. Of course the Hot Rod guys noticed them. Now in the mid 60's when guys started going to Automatics in our early cars that never had them something had to be done. Custom Rads were out of reach for most of them so the "TRUCK" unit found a new use. Now just think for a second, the first gen auto were air cooled and as cars grew in size the Factory added lines to the Rad and temps were held to running motor temps. My thoughts have always been if your not towing or driving a 6,000 lb Tank air cooled is just fine. I have proven that to many times to count. A light weight Hot Rod don't need a 10"X 14" cooler period. Countless times I have taken 5/16" steel line rolled it into 3" coil making 4 loops, hung it where ever it had room under the car and plugged it into the Trans. It's just a loop between Factory fittings to circulate the fluid. I have yet to have anyone burn up there Tranny from this cooling style. End Result is I don't block Air Flow in front of the Rad to start with. Second, I'm not pulling pre heated Air into the Rad. The car is just plain going to run a few degrees cooler to start with.
    Just think about that.
    The Wizzard, your welcome
     
  9. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    OK I went out and removed the elec fan that sits between the tranny cooler and the rad, just sitting with the hood up and the rear most elec fan on it stayed around 220. The shop that rebuilt the engine put a lower rad hose on it and it is one of those stainless flexable hoses that have a rubber insert and double hose clamps on each end, well it was leaking a bit and I tightened up and started the car and let it run and sure enough it started to leak even more ( where it clamps on the lower rad connection and it was super hot pissing rad fluid like a cow and a flat rock. I just got off the phone with the builder and he said it has a 195 T-stat in it and the timing is at 12 base and 34 revved . So right now just letting it cool down then remove that lower hose and see whats wrong with that rubber insert sleeve thing. ??
     
  10. Studius
    Joined: Sep 16, 2005
    Posts: 11

    Studius
    Member

    When I re-cammed my 350 I included a Flow Kooler water pump - 30% more flow than stock and a Griffin alum rad with vertical 1" tubes. Spent the next few years chasing the overheating issue - trying everything imaginable. One day I had the rad cap off and noticed the water was flowing like Niagara Falls. I yanked the flow kooler & put the old stock short water pump back on. Instant fix! Anybody want a flow kooler?


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    rjones35 likes this.
  11. I thought I had already replied and I went back and check,I did,I was about to post the exact thing I said previous in one of your other threads concerning overheating but why 3 separate threads asking the same thing?

    If you keep them all together it would be a process of elimination,just saying. HRP
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  12. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    Wow Studius
    you almost had me ready to go out and buy a Flow Kooler water pump til the end there :) thank you.
     
  13. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    Well I removed the front fan maybe I should move or eliminate the trans cooler then remove the rear fan and look for the best mechanical fan and shroud ? What is a good engine fan and should I look for a shroud that might fit my tall not wide radiator ?
     
  14. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,757

    JOECOOL
    Member

    I have been thru the overheating thing several times but managed to fix it over time.
    The temp depends on where you take the temp from. Its always higher at the head than at the front of the intake manifold. Sometimes as much as 15 degrees.The easier the hot air can get out of the engine compartment the lower the temp will be. I do not like those flex hoses,I think they restrict flow. I worked in a commercial plant that had a lot of heat exchangers. They used a chemical additive that allowed the coolant to get passed the boundry layer that exists in a lot of metal including cast iron. I used the same heat exchanging fluid in all my vehicles from then on.I have actually lowered temps by slowing the coolant flow down ,and I would never run a vehicle without a thermostat.Best of luck .
     
  15. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,744

    jimmy six
    Member

    If you at the lower left hand side of my photo you will see the top of the rubber seal mounted on a piece of sheet metal. It seals to the hood. ALL the air coming thru the grill must go thru the radiator. If the 2 side vents to the heater or air to the car are pulled open only a partial amt goes to the inside of the car,I have no shroud and just a 4 blade fan. There was no shroud in 56 for the cars, only to he trucks and birds. image.jpeg
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  16. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That rubber seal is a very important item. My 51 has the same treatment. 51 Vicky 011.jpg It uses the Stock form Rad. I also run a far from stock Small Block Smokin 51.JPG with no heat issues. 51 Vicky 010.jpg notice there are No trans cooling lines between motor and rad and it's been that way for 14 years and 60K miles. I run a 700-R-4. No issues at all. Also No shroud. I keep saying, it's about Air Flow. I've learned Hot Rods with Heat issues are self inflicted by the builders.
    The Wizzard
     
    flatheadpete likes this.
  17. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    I like your tranny cooler fix.I do have a trans cooler in front of the rad that is blocking air flow and preheating the air going through the rad.The way this car was built they used a rubber line from trans out to cooler and a rubber line back to trans.I don't like using rubber lines so I need to get some steel lines and trans fittings and go from there. thank you. neil ( What's left of him )
     
  18. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    What a beautiful car nice work
     
  19. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    I need to find where to buy a roll or how ever it comes of the rubber seal
     
  20. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    I'm listening
     
  21. The steel line can be bought at many parts houses by the Foot or a complete 25 Foot roll. There seems to be different quality material used in making the line itself. I like the Ballcamp product from N.A.P.A. It double flairs the best and is easy to work with. The nuts for the fitting end into the Trans are just standard line nuts, nothing special. You can probably hy-grade them off what's already there.
    As for the rubber on the Air Dam on both jimmy six and my car that is Factory Ford stuff specific to the Car. Mine came from Dennis Carpenter along with many other Rubber parts when doing the rebuild. I guess what He and I are saying try to get back to what things started like when it comes to Air Flow into and through the Rad.
    Thanks for the complement. This kind of Stuff is what I made my living doing so at 70 now I should have completed the Learning Curve. It's been a Good ride so far.
    The Wizzard
     
  22. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 9,760

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    For a trans cooler on my '50 Ford I run a (gulp) small power steering cooler from a Hyundai that's mounted behind the passenger rocker panel. It runs a pretty stout 302/C4 combo with a stock 6cylinder radiator and engine fan. This morning it never got to 160*...granted it was only 45* outside but...
    And yes...that hood seal is very important!!
     
  23. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,763

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Re trans coolers, most heat in the trans oil is generated in the converter. If the converter is a standard converter with standard stall speed, and lock up style, it won't generate as much heat. Higher stall speeds will generate more heat as the oil undergoes far more shearing (internal fluid friction). If the stall rpm is = or > than cruise rpm than the converter will generate heat while cruising, and a cooler is recommended. Heat is the number 1 killer of transmissions. The oil cooks then the transmission goes.
     
  24. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    Hey Wizzard I removed the trans cooler and had a few feet of 3/8 copper tube and I used my tube bender and made 4 loops with 2 straight ends and flares and found a place where the frame rail y's off and it fit in there pretty good and both ends stick through a access hole that lines up with the trans fittings on the trans, do you think copper will work or should I go get steel ? Now that I removed the very front elec fan and the trans cooler all there is up front is a/c condenser then rad, then the rear elec fan which really pulls a lot of air through the rad when on and it does cool her down. The prob I see with that rear fan is it has an aluminum shroud that is the same size as the rad , I mean it covers it completely so when the fan is on all the air has to come through the fan area only but when the fan is off the shroud isn't helping by blocking off all 4 corners. I was thinking of putting holes in all 4 corners and maybe 4 of those silicone sheet flapper thingies. I might get a 3-4 inch hole in each corner at most. watchyouthink? neil what's left of him
     
    Work In Progress likes this.
  25. Neil; In looking at 2 of your photos I think if you removed the electric fan and shroud you can mount a manual fan with no problem. To answer your question about the holes I say yes. I'd put holes in all 4 corners and Not cover them, just let the air pass through. Copper is ok, it's pretty soft so make some kind of support for it. Don't need much, I generally do that even with steel line. Odel clamp on the bottom coil to something. Sure hope you double flaired the fittings. If your going to stay with that fan unit take it out and remove every other Circle of the Plastic back unit. It will increase your Air movement. Just use a pair of wire cutters and snip them off.
    The Wizzard
     
  26. 57 shaker
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 316

    57 shaker
    Member
    from phx.az

    Thank you Wizzard you are awesome :)
     
  27. Well I don't know about awesome but I know how it feels to get good help. That's how I got where I'm at. Just passing it on.
     
  28. Donuts & Peelouts
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 1,191

    Donuts & Peelouts
    Member
    from , CA

    Hey can you take some better pictures of your engine bay, maybe further from the engine this time. AND you never said if you just got this 350 up and running this week, or if you just got done doing some work to it???

    Did your "builder" just build you engine or did he have his hands in all of what's under your hood? If so, tell his ass he needs work to do. If not, then do what everyone else said (easy for me say,huh) and you will solve your issue. I agree with the restriction of air due to the electrical fans.
    My 2 cents are the Radiator. Why did you go aluminum, is your 350 that hopped up? Is your upper radiator hose the correct one and is it and the Radiator sitting higher than your engine? Are you running the correct COOLANT for your SBC that it's called for and it's the right one rated for your hi temp environment...
    I used to run a sbc in 100 degree LA summers. Never had a shroud, stock radiator from Gchina, mechanical fan (with one bent up from a fender bender) .. it also looks as if your grill is lower than were your radiator sits making it hard to feed air to. Looks great tho..
    "Do what I say and know what I do"


    Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    57 Fargo likes this.
  29. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,262

    Gman0046
    Member

    The only thing aluminum does is save weight. Copper/brass radiators have a better cooling coefficient then aluminum despite misconceptions to the contrary. Still waiting for the pictures of the radiator from a greater distance from those previously posted.



    Gary
     
    Donuts & Peelouts likes this.
  30. Or you could just drop a Flattie in it. :D:D:D
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.