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Hot Rods Overhead Hoist...on second thought

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fortunateson, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Not seriously but just thinking and putting it out there for people to advise on the idea. Seriously...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  2. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Now that’s what I call a reply. Simple and straightforward. Now I’ll have to get some specs but your solution seems to be relying on the bottom cord which apparently is a no-go thing.
    Thanks for the replies from you and all other contributors on this “Structural Engineering 101” class...
     
  3. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I’ll PM you with details hopefully, on the weekend. I wish I had that old style 2x6 rafters that would tie into the wall rather than trusses. I would think that style would hold a higher load but what do I know...I’m the one seeking advice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2022
  4. I didn't have plans, just calculated what I wanted to do with it, height and width wise. Tubing as I remember is schedule 40 & 80 pipe with a collar welded on each leg and a lock nut & bolt to stop rotation and pull out.
    Also used a Harbour Freight winch and load leveller.
     
  5. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,462

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Look up "Just Answers". They have structural engineers that can tell you what to add where. Under $100.00 for my car port.
     
  6. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,885

    gene-koning
    Member

    I built a rolling gantry out of 6" steel I beam. It was 10' high, and had a span of 10'. Never had any problem with anything I needed to lift with it. When I moved here, I didn't have the height capacity for it to fit inside of the building, so I sold it to a guy that works on farm tractors.

    I've pulled truck cabs off frames with an engine hoist outside on my driveway. When I need to do that, I sure wish I still had my gantry.

    Before the gantry, I pulled a lot of motors with a 10' long 6" x 6" placed across the top of the rafter bottom boards, but I also braced each side with a 4" x 4". I've seen more garages then I'd like to have seen with dips in the roofs from guys throwing wood beams on the rafter bottom boards without any other support to pull motors. Pretty crazy if you ask me. Gene
     
  7. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,662

    clem
    Member

    definitely not a good idea……
    Please let us know what you decide to do……thanks!

    this is the type of gantry set up I was referring to in post 44 above.
    is that a drawing board in the far corner ? Maybe someone who also has qualified experience in this type of thing ?


    3AB7675F-3FE6-46BE-9FC7-9DD746A68B5F.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
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  8. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 987

    finn
    Member

    A Harbor Freight gantry crane lists for about $800. It has a one ton lift capacity, and casters to make it mobile.

    Might be a sound investment after reading some of the responses, and having looked into truss specs and live load capacity.

    The Menards site has, or had, lower cord design specs for different types of trusses, if you dig deep enough. Your search will probably dissuade you from lifting from the truss bottom cord.
     
  9. Not being up on my architectural lingo, not having been present when the garage was built and only going by what I was told, I will do my best to describe what I believe has been done.

    After a quick google search, I now realize that a true 'rafter' is NOT the entire V-shaped building product as I once believed. So, going off of the image posted below, my understanding is my father in-law welded tabs to the I-beam then somehow fastened the I-beam to each roof joist (there is no second floor) not to the rafters themselves. I can get more info as to single shear or double. I thought a joist was the horizontal beam flooring is attached to, I was not aware the horizontal part of what I call a rafter is also called a joist. I can get more details if needed but believe me, this is NOT a design that I believe should be copied :(

    upload_2022-2-3_7-44-59.png
     
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,690

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’d never heard of a “PE” until about 2 years ago. That’s (as I was told by a PE who signed off on industrial control cabinets ) that he was responsible for the the design for the for life.

    He also talked about the process he went through to be a PE, the testing, the panel interviews, some stuff I thought was just wild to hear about.

    Now I met the fella for the day he was at the plant, but is what he said true?

    I/e if you sign off on a build and (with you SE) and the building collapsed after you left the company you signed it off for, would you be called into question and have to then prove that what you signed off for was valid, then do your own digging (out of your pocket) to make sure what was used in the project was what you signed off?
     
  11. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,805

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Exactly. A good example is the collapse of the skywalks at the Hyatt Regency hotel in Kansas City 40+ years ago.

    http://ethics.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/04/HyattRegency.pdf
     
  12. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,616

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Nope, don't want to give the impression that I'm edumacated. More like an advanced "redneck".....and proud of it. Was going to build a homebuilt airplane a while back and picked it up at an auction so I could clamp the plans to it.

    There are lots of things to think about when building a crane. Everyone needs to take reasonable precautions to insure their safety when building one. That said, most of the people here are not going to employ the services of a structural engineer. You not only have to look at what works for others, but is it well thought out safetywise.

    One consideration is whether you want to build something that will allow movement once its loaded. Being able to not only lift the load, but to shift it fore and aft or side to side makes for a much more usable crane. Some people have very little room, but still fore/aft movement is very useful in confined spaces....and it takes up almost no room.
    As mentioned above there are ways to stack a beam rather than to scab a beam, and while one may be better than the other, the other can often be sufficient. I have built several large lean to roofs at my home. I used 16' 2x6s and they have held 17" snow loads with no problem. No engineered trusses, just 2' spaced 2x6s.
    Now, IF I was going to attach an Ibeam to them, it would run at 90 degrees to the 2x6 "rafter". I would add another 2x6 scabbed to about every 3rd or 4th rafter because I can't stack them. You can see one of the car port roofs in the pictures I posted earlier. I did not put my beam up this way, because I wanted side to side movement rather than longitudnal movement. The point here is that which type of movement you want affects which way you may want to build a crane. Anyway, your "rafter" in a carport or your truss in your garage will normally run from side to side. Your garage door is normally going to prevent any vertical support of a beam mounted front to rear. So strengthening the existing trusses with scabed boards will give a lot more strength. Since the I beam crosses under many trusses, weld brackets to it that let you attach it to as many of the trusses/rafters as possible... especially the end ones. Now you have many trusses/rafters spreading any load. If you build one this way, you can use a much smaller Ibeam......probably 4". Now you don't want to tempt things by lifting diesel engines, but you can put two trolleys on it and lift some car frames and bodies.

    If you want to have side to side movement, you have to consider whether you have a finished ceiling or not. If its finished, then you will need supports at each end of the beam.....at the wall. I screw them to the floor and to the upper plate on the wall for stability. The width of your span will determine how big your beam needs to be. For a two car garage, I would want a 5" or 6" beam. That said, if you use a 4" beam, you can always run a bracket up thru the ceiling near the center and put some bracing crossways over your trusses to add some center support.

    If your ceiling is not finished, then your beam can sit on top of each wall. It would be nice if it sits where there is a stud directly under it, but you can always take a 2x6 and attach it to the wall with screws into the walls bottom plate and top plate and gain a lot of support.

    Now I'm not a structural engineer and don't guarantee that any of this won't get you hurt, but these have worked for me in the past. I really prefer having some sort of support at each end of a beam, but sometimes thats just not possible. When its not then its best to spread that load over as many supporting rafters/trusses as possible. So you have to be the judge on whether what you cobbled up is safe or not, but I've told you how I would do my own.
    So best of luck to those that want to build one.;)

    When in doubt, I just overbuild.

    Not all redneck inventions are bad......
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  13. Fitty Toomuch
    Joined: Jun 29, 2010
    Posts: 275

    Fitty Toomuch
    Member
    from WVa

    I have a WV hillbilly, yeah that oughta hold it, structural engineering degree.
    I designed this contraption, 1/2 ton trolley hoist, old USA made. 8" I beam, 3" sch.40 pipe uprights,
    8" cast steel heavy duty swivel castors. integrated sleeve for engine stand. Works great, love it.
    Had to reinforce rafter section to assemble by myself. It will remain, and maybe the next guy will discover that to disassemble and get it out of there.


    69 straight axle 011.jpg
     
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  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 31,020

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My buddy's family gave me a steel H beam about the size of the one that Swade41 showed in his posts.
    The intent is to put that one on top of two posts up high enough to put a trolley on it and hang a chain hoist from it similar to what Clem showed.
    I do like the gantry idea and have had one made with an aluminum I beam and steel tubing that I have used for years and can be knocked down for transport in about 15 minutes or less.
    Here it is when I unloaded the 31 Vic body I had from the boat trailer I hauled it home on.
    [​IMG]
    That thing gets used on a lot of projects around here.
     
  15. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,618

    Boneyard51
    Member

    I guess I will include a picture of the hoist we used since 1959 on the ranch, next to the old shop building. I went with my Dad on a 1934=Allis WC pulling a trailer to get those beams. My Dad loaded those beams on the trailer by himself , with a little help from 7 year old me! He welded them together on the ground and dug three foot holes. He then put boards in the holes and pulled it up right with our 1937 Ford ton and a half. Steadying it with the 34 Allis. When it was straight we filled the big holes with concrete! I still have that 37 Ford and 34 Allis!
    I cannot begin to tell tell you the amount of things that hoist has lifted, in it’s sixty plus years of existence! It is still in use on the ranch today!






    Bones ED1B4DD2-5705-4624-83A8-503F23A5C22F.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  16. Rusty J
    Joined: Nov 25, 2019
    Posts: 130

    Rusty J
    Member

    I scored a set of height adjustable volleyball net tubes - they're 3/8 thick x 4" tube - unbelievable size for what they were meant for - but I'm going to build a gantry that I can take apart and move around on gravel as well as concrete. This thread just gave me some neat ideas for this project.
     
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  17. WhitewallWill
    Joined: Mar 5, 2014
    Posts: 265

    WhitewallWill
    Member
    from N. Van, BC

    Speaking as a home builder, lot's of good examples of use of beams on this thread and a beam is what you want. They are designed for concentrated weight or point loads. Trusses are designed as a system to spread loads and that is typically weight from above not hanging from below. If you can get your hands on a steel I beam virtually any system to support it would be the key be it stationary or fixed point, steel built up or solid PSL posts like the sample below. Look at W8XX steel beams as a typical beam that would fit in your average garage. Canada Scaffold would be a possible source for you to enquire. Eg. the XX is typically the weight per foot length of beam. They are used dimensionally to fit into the space you have available. The example below is 1 of 29 we are putting in a house currently. It's a good way to sling a concentrated lift from or chase point loads onto. I'll be installing in my next garage.
    20220203_104155_resized.jpg
     
  18. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,426

    X-cpe

    My mother's father (self educated immigrant), especially when building for others. - If you build it twice as strong as it needs to be, it might last half as long as it should.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2022
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  19. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,785

    Paul
    Editor

    Mine made with free salvaged I beams and an estate sale electric hoist. Hoist was cheap and broken, took it to a licensed shop and had it rebuilt and certified for a fraction of the cost of new.

    There is no way I would hang anything from my trusses, but if I did I would consider sandwiching two or more trusses with plywood and brace between, to strengthen them and spread the load.

    PXL_20211018_222805315.jpg
     
  20. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Thanks for the reply. What is a solid PSL post? I’ll be sending a PM.
     
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  21. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Well everyone I want to say thank you for all the suggestions and educational tips! This is a project for down the road, if at all, but if and when I do this I’ll be sure to post the results. One hoist may turn my roof into one of those ultra desirable “dromedary roof” designs!

    Maybe just use my engine crane and a couple of spare warm bodies. I don’t think the hardtop or the 5W can be all that heavy.

    Bonus...I have another “Featured Thread”!
     
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  22. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,616

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Your trusses are a perfect example of trusses I would be scared to use for a crane. However, if several of them were strengthened with double 2x6s they could be used for a lot of stuff. Since you are located in Washington State, I imagine they see some pretty good snow loads as is. I like the fact that you went with the I Beam though. :)

    One thing I would like to point out in the picture is that the bottom boards on the trusses are NOT one continuous span. They are joined with small metal plates. Thats one of the reasons why scabing /gluing/ and thru bolting larger 2x6s will help them a lot. Any truss that has these plates joining the lower board need help. Don't trust the small joining plates. Also, don't stand under your hoist beam the first time you test it!:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
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  23. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member


    Just saw a Princess Auto one tone gantry for $599. Maybe ill go that route.
     
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  24. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 1,151

    TrailerTrashToo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The advantage is that it can be rolled.
     
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  25. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,616

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Each person has to decide what works for them. The biggest problem with a Gantry is that it takes up room and is often hard to find a place for it. A properly constructed overhead crane takes up virtually no shop space......but it isn't movable. I posted a picture of my son's crane set up several times before, so here it is again. I think this is probably one of the most versatile ways to build a crane. You don't need but one larger beam for the front. You pick up space for storage with pallet racking. You can also make the pallet rack serve as your workbench. AND you get a 2 post lift as a central support. 4" I beam serves as the main runners because it only has 10' spans. Takes a little work to do it, but really makes a nice set-up . Matts Ctane.JPG DSCN1072.JPG Crane 4a.jpg
    Crane 3a.jpg
    This allows someone with limited space to be very able to perform most tasks easily. If you have a lot of space, its even better.
     
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  26. rdscotty
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 225

    rdscotty
    Member
    from red deer

    "Just saw a Princess Auto one tone gantry for $599. Maybe ill go that route."

    I saw that and first thing I thought of was your thread.
     
  27. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,826

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    I bought one from Northern Tool a few months ago. I love it. Makes it really easy to pull motors, either out of the front or back of the truck.

    [​IMG]
     
  28. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,152

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Does this help? ;)
    [​IMG]
    Just kidding...rolling gantry is your best bet
     
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  29. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Very nice but not in the budget. PM me for donation instructions if you wish...
     
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  30. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 4,582

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Perfect!
     
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