Hot Rods Overhead Hoist...on second thought

It all depends on the structure of the trusses. Back in the day people seem to build buildings that you could hang a dozer from. Barns and shops I have seen built lately , I wonder if they will even hold the roof up, let alone an engine!






Bones

 

I think there have been enough warnings about what to do and not to do with hanging stuff from trusses, so I'll steer in a different direction. This direction is in regards to the angle of the chains or straps when you are lifting things, and the multiplication factor that an angle has on the ACTUAL loading of the straps or chains. I "borrowed" the photo above from earlier in this thread to show what appears to be about a 30º angle, which translates into each side of the two straps "seeing" the total weight of the body being lifted, per the image below.

Make sure your chains/straps are rated for the load that will actually be put on them, not just for the weight of load you're lifting. The angle makes a big difference.

 

Here's a simple thing to build for the plain ol' garage, str ong enough for light car bodies and motor/trans, etc. You get a chunk of heavy wall pipe, weld it onto a foot or so of good angle iron, and tap threads in both ends. 1"pipe I use, with 1/2" threads, that part will go thru the ceiling if you have one, the angle iron resting on a truss. thread your eye bolt in. Now up top, you flatten the ends of some 1" electrical conduit, drill a hole to bolt on to the pipe, and flatten the other end to drill two holes and mount up high on the two trusses either side of the center one its sitting on. Now you are lifting from 3 points. I have a sheet rock ceiling, and after several years of lifting it has not cracked the rock, nor is it "bouncy" when there is a load on it

 

How trusses are constructed can run a wide gambit. Some of the old trusses nailed together were overbuilt. The new trusses with the pressed nail plates can barely tolerate being handled as they lack stiffness until they are up and have lateral support. The bottom chord on a truss is a tension member like a bow string and is not designed for a down force. Tension members are lighter than members for bending loads. I go back to trusses being a wide gambit. It would be good to have an engineer or a structural tech look at it. That would give some comfort & direction as to a workable solution. Another option is to put in a real beam that is longer that can carry the load without bending and put posts under the ends when it is in use. That way the beam is supported from moving sideways at each truss and the posts carry the load when the beam is in use. Taking calculations off the web without knowing all factors that affect the design is risky.

 

While I agree with most of what you say, the real risk is solved by not trying to lift the motor out of your semi truck. This is for common car use. I had my avatar 3w body with doors and deck lid on and off several times, some roadster bodies, and countless v8 motor and trans combo. If it hasn't cracked the rock, doesn't move or bounce with a load...thats enough engineering theory for me. I have three in my garage, wish I had more. I leave the chain hoist on at all times, can walk underneath when its wound up tight. Lift motors out of the pickup box, etc, etc. I like it better than a cherry picker that is in your way when not in use, and hard to work around when dropping in a motor. Works for me

 

I guess I live on the sketchy side of doing things too, I have 2 of these chain fall setups hanging from 15 ft high I-beams, one about 10 ft in from the main door and another about 25 ft in. I already have a back injury and certainly don't need it any worse than it is so I use them all the time and have lifted the front of my 41 right off the ground with them.



In the back half of the garage there used to be a one bedroom apartment, I ripped down the majority of the walls, double stacked 2x4's the full width of that span then slipped this I-beam through the door and under them.




Once up in place it has the standard triple king post on ends that the beam rests on and then I put basement jacks next to the triple kings, I have no doubt it would hold an engine but since I have those others I don't use it for that.
That beam wasn't that expensive from my local steel supplier and takes up less head room vs the same load capacity LVL.

 

When I hung an I beam on a couple Glue laminated beams in my new garage for running a rolling hoist, i did a deflection calculation to see how much weight would cause a 1/4" deflection where the I beam would be hung. based on the weight allowed for a 1/4" drop, minus the beam weight I gave my setup a nominal weight limit at the ends and overhang of the beam, and stenciled it on the beam. The building inspector had no problems with the approach. Intuitively, a 1/4" deflection would not be approaching the allowable load that the beam could safely handle.

a bit of the beam and hoist can be seen.

The full beam with stenciled limits barely visible is shown, with hoist at far end of beam.

 

That looks good Russ, 10' ceiling?

 

Well actually it’s more like 6 days a year at the most when I have snow on the roof...
Still researching and appreciating all replies and a PM. The span is just over 22’. The garage is basically six 6” X 6” posts with tripled 2” X 12” beams forming the outside walls. (Originally a carport.). I’m wondering about making a beam from a couple of two by twelves but they would have to be made up of a twelve foot and a ten foot to make the distance from side to side, as though we have great timber up here in B.C. I can’t get 22 foot lengths of two by twelves. LOL.

I’m also thinking about beefing up the lower cord of the trusses by doubling up on the two by fours or perhaps adding two by sixes instead. Then I would tie the lower cord into the top of the trusses at two points.

Again this would be used to lift car bodies, a coupe and a hardtop with the hardtop ‘56 Meteor being the heavier of the two. No engines or anything like that.

I may pay a visit to a truss manufacturing firm but I’m not confident they would suggest anything due to liability issues.

More to follow unless Chicken Little proves to be correct! LOL

 

I built this A frame that breaks down for storage, and have lifted my Hemi Engine and transmission combo as well a my roadster body.

 

Reminds me of my old swing set I played on as kid (born in ‘56 so HAMB friendly! LOL)
I like it and could be disassembled after use. Plans? Tubing specs? How about the coupling joints?

 

Mine is on heavy duty castors ( not shown ) and it comes apart for transport / storage. Very handy unit that many friends have borrowed and I have even used it in the yard when needed. Glen

 

I have a collapsible a frame that I made out of the old swing set my Dad made for us back in 1953 and we hauled it back to Oklahoma from California in Oct of 1957! It has pulled many engines for many people over the years!






Bones

 

don’t follow the above advice.

probably the most sensible response thus far.

like others said, the bottom chord is in tension and not designed to have point loads put on it.
Loading from the apex is in theory the better place, but probably a ceiling in the way. And still not recommended as the point load will probably exceed the original design of the truss.

Ask yourself how many of the replies above come from those that have spent time in architectural and structural design………..

build a gantry that is supported by the concrete ground floor and avoid pulling your house down over yourself !
.

 

Seriously ?

 

My buddy had a slick set up (was in my eyes anyways) he had a pipe with a flange welded on the bottom and bolted to the concrete floor, he then had another plate welded on top bolted to the bottom of a truss. I don’t know what he used for bearings, but at he top a 6 inch I-beam came straight out about 8-10 foot and had a brace maybe 3 foot into the I beam and back to the pipe for support.
His hoist was on a trolley. He had it set back maybe 3 feet from the shop door. He could back up to the shop, open the door and “swing” this arm outside, used his hoist to lift the load, swing it back in to the shop.

He was always on the look out for a motor driven trolley, to drive it back and forth on the I beam.

It was a two person operation to drop an engine into a car with his set up, one would steady the engine and one had to use a 2x4 he had to coax the trolley into position. That’s why he was wanting a motorized trolley.

Last I recall he was hunting down a garage door opener and was going to set it up to have a Jack shaft drive a cable attached to the trolley.

I moved out of the area so I don’t know how it turned out.

 

Hello,

When we were in the throes of building the backyard garage space, our next door neighbor had a swing set that was not being used and we gave it some thought as to converting it to a support system for a chain hoist unit.

Our backyard was large, but limited as to usable space. It was groomed to be a family living and playing space, not a backyard automotive/repair yard. So, the steel structure could have been used, but, it was not part of the plan. If it were hidden behind the original small two car garage out of sight, then perhaps we would have used it. Our mom's air dry laundry wires and supports had taken over the area for more important things.

In the end, the removable wooden upright support posts were easier to put up and remove with each planned motor removal and installation. (in the original small two car garage) The cool smooth concrete floor, the shaded areas and access to a sink were extra incentives to make a nice indoor hoist area in our family two car garage… YRMV

Jnaki

The thought of a steel structure like a playground swing set was used at our local dragstrip by plenty of racers during their weekend racing. We lived a short distance away and had access to our garage supplies with a short drive home. But, some of the racers from other parts of So Cal had nowhere else to go for emergency repairs, etc.

Here are some photos of the engine support system that was for all racers at Lion’s Dragstrip from 1959-60. It was in the pit area and used quite often.
Lion's Dragstrip photo James N.

An earlier post :

In 1959, Lions had the most up to date dragstrip in So Cal. But, in looking at the myriad of film clips, I came across this Lion's pit structure for engine changes at the strip.

It was an old backyard playground structure stripped of its swings and see saw. We did see that being used and by the looks of it in the photo, it has been used quite a bit. We all had 2x4 supports holding up the cross beams in various garages. But, this one was put up with a few minor detachments and worked well.
Eldon Dye/Don Hampton Competition Coupe

 

A couple posts have mentioned adding a second chord beside an existing one for strength. Please note that stacked beams will bear a heavier vertical load than sistered beams, so if you have the space available you should stack instead of sister.

 

A long time ago, I worked in a sign shop that had a chain hoist on a track that would be able to transport huge signs to various places in the shop to work on. We made a similar but smaller system in my buddy's garage that we attached to the trusses and with it we could move a car body from one bay of the garage to the other. No one killed by it so far.

 

Yes

 

You would be amazed what rafters can hold. I am amazed every time I am in my in-laws garage.
30x30 garage (or thereabouts) with a roughly 28ft long I beam bolted/clamped to the rafters. NOTHING supporting the ends ... NOTHING. The entire I beam appears to be stuck to the ceiling, there are no fasteners visible (he welded tabs to it apparently). He has a rolling block and tackle hanging off the beam. He has lifted many an engine and trans as well as his 47 Ford cab. No problems and it has been up for close to 30 years. The beam is probably 8-10 feet away from a wall and fastened to every rafter (obviously).

He does NOT brace it in any way when using it. I honestly have no idea how the rafters can hold the weight of the beam on its own let alone any cargo hanging off it.

I am not the first person to ask "what the hell is holding that thing up there?" ...

Would I do it that way? NOT A CHANCE. That being said, he has never had an issue with it.

They jokingly (??) accuse me of being a "belt AND suspenders" kinda guy but that beam installation is nuts yet it works.

 

calling all structural engineers…….
or should that be “wanna- be” structural engineers………

By being supported from the rafters as you described, puts the load more evenly to the outer walls, (entirely different to what the OP is proposing), which is why he has got away with it thus far……

 

As you mentioned “ structural engineers” you described men that are educated in building something that will work as cheap as possible! You see it all the time! Twenty years ago I witnessed in when they built my new shop! Wow!
What us Country boys do , is way overbuild it, so it will work! I was noted all my life as “ over kill” . That’s how I survived and actually flourished!






Bones

 

I am a registered/licensed PE/Structural Engineer......I would not offer any advice until I see the details of the structural configuration he wants to add the hoist to, and the weights he is considering, including any weight on the above level. He might be OK, or the whole thing might collapse on him.......much more info is needed. I have seen people add a second story to mobile home.......a frighten sight......some were lucky, others were quickly homeless.

 

The thing about trusses is that more recent designs (last 40 years) tend to use 2x4s and place them on 2 foot centers. Earlier on and still in some instances, 2x6 trusses were used and spaced farther apart. When I built my 40x60 pole barn, I used 2x6 trusses spaced on 6 foot centers which was a lot less expensive than 2x4s on 2 ft centers. A lot of the time, the 2 foot centers are used because people want to drywall their ceilings and the drywall won't make the longer span without sagging. I used metal siding for the ceiling and it worked well. The money that would be spent to finish drywall went toward spray foam in the attic and then a bunch of blown in insulation over that.
The point is that its hard to say what your trusses are capable of holding because different sizes are used.

If you just want a single point to lift from, or two single points.......I would consider scabing 2x6s to the side of several existing trusses so you can spread the load over several beefed up trusses. I would try to find some boards that will span in one length and thru bolt them to the truss on each side. Might look for a sawmill to get them long enough. If you can't get them in one length, then get some that you can stagger the break on each side of your truss.Get an 8' and a 12' on the other side of the truss....a 12' and an 8'. Put wood glue on them and clamp them to the truss and then thrubolt them in place.

The best way would be to keep looking for Facebook, craigslist,local scrapyard,industrial auction.......and find a 6" I-beam that you can span it with. What would be really nice is to find two beams so you can have two lifting points. Then buy a manual trolley for the second one. Being able to move the lifting points is a BIG help.

If you only have one lifting point, it will help to incorporate an engine tilter into some sort of lifting bracket. Trying to balance a body while lifting can be problematic. It depends on the type of body. Truck body isn't as bad as a car body. Also, just running straps under the roof and lifting can bend the sheetmetal....ask me how I know.
There are different ways to lift, but you do have to protect the sheetmetal both at the lift point and whereever the straps or chains press against the body.



In the picture above, I bent the metal lifting like this

This is a HF engine tilter bolted to an aluminum cross beam. Another beam runs under the roof. Then a plate is slipped on each side to make a sandwich. The chain to the opposite end of the tilter and down to the firewall allows you to level the cab as needed.

Next is the advantage of TWO lifting points.

I am working on repairing the firewall and the lower hinge pocket boxes. I can get it high or low enough to make access much easier.

When the back of the cab is lowered to get the angle, the chain presses hard against the sheetmetal. I had an old roll bar pad I slipped over the chain and some rags around the hook.

The next picture is the hinge pocket I need to repair. Its at shoulder height and easy to get to. Much better than crawling aroud and getting up and down over and over.


I keep telling you guys, you'll love it if you build a decent crane in your shop . Quit procrastinatin

 

Rusty, with all due respect, I would do your set up differently. The reason I say this is because of the difference in trusses and also the loads someone may try to lift. Generally if the load is spread over several trusses you have a better chance of sustaining a load without problems. Your set up probably works just fine, but having more trusses involved means less likely to have a failure.

 

Is the beam attached to the rafters, or the joists? If attached to the rafters at their peak, it will support a lot more weight than if it is attached to the joists, due to the rafter peak being the high point in a triangle, and putting the joist in tension..

 

@ekimneirbo , Yes, more, or wider load points would be better. When I look at your modification to my drawing, It appears to me that my drawing is not too well illustrated. It should be showing the dry wall is rite at the bottom of the heavy wall pipe, so only the eyelet is sticking out of the ceiling, and the angle iron is sitting on top of a 2x4 truss. Anything heavier than basic car stuff I have to do outside with equipment I own, but not all have that option

 

Don't forget the difference between static load and shock load. Shock multiplies exponentially.