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Orphaned Timing Tags

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Nov 20, 2023.

  1. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,751

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Ryan submitted a new blog post:

    Orphaned Timing Tags

    [​IMG]

    Continue reading the Original Blog Post
     
  2. MMM1693
    Joined: Feb 8, 2009
    Posts: 1,212

    MMM1693
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very cool!
     
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  3. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,379

    -Brent-
    Member

    Wonderful! Keep us updated as the tags find their way home.
     
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  4. hrm2k
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 4,900

    hrm2k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I figured it couldn’t be but just had to ask. Could this be one of the Pierson Brothers and could this have been their coupe ? Holy Shit !!! IMG_2085.jpeg
     
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  5. Stogy likes this.
    1. Good stuff! This one is on a five window I sold to a friend. Research showed that Ken Bigelow was known for building Chevy six cylinder motors for stock cars. The 32 it is on had a small block Chevy in it . The block was 1962 so tag not for this engine. Any one have some history? Previous owner was Dwayne or Duane, Rogers.
    IMG_3685 (1).JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
  6. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,751

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Yes... the one and only...
     
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  7. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,420

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    What a rad project
     
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  8. And the '36 is still around and was restored to the way it looked back then by Bill Ganahl.
     
  9. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,459

    Fordors
    Member

    Ed Iskenderian ground both short and long duration cams for six cylinder GMC racer Ken Bigelow, they were known as the Short Bigelow and Long Bigelow. IDK if Ken ever built a SBC but Isky had small block grinds with the same name.
     
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  10. Jim Wood
    Joined: Jul 13, 2022
    Posts: 67

    Jim Wood

    Peterson Museum would be a great place to donate those tags. I'm sure they could make a cool display of that collection.
     
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  11. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,278

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    George was 16 when he held a record at Bonneville, and 20 when he earned this tag at El Mirage. He went back to school and became a lawyer.

    George Arnold Cromer, 73, of Las Vegas, passed away Saturday, Feb. 25, 2006. He was born May 3, 1932, in Los Angeles, and resided in Las Vegas for 73 years. George graduated from Las Vegas High School, class of 1950, and was a member of the track team. Upon graduating, he enlisted in the U.S. Army and served during the Korean War. In 1957, George graduated from the University of Southern California. He then attended the University of Denver School of Law, graduating in 1959, and passed the State Bar of Nevada in 1960. In 1977, he was president of the Clark County Bar Association, and a trial advocate with the Trial Lawyers Association. George loved drag racing. In 1948, he held a land speed record at the Bonneville Salt Flats, in Utah, and the El Mirage Dry Lake, in California. He was also a member of the NHRA, the Los Angeles Strokers and the Las Vegas Gamblers car clubs.

    20231120_113247.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
    -Brent-, Asphalt Demon, Stogy and 4 others like this.
  12. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 7,491

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    It's easy to get really high on treasure finds.
     
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  13. hrm2k
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 4,900

    hrm2k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    DAMN !!!!

    @corncobcoupe , when I got to help with the Carrillo Roadster restoration, I got off on all the history and the car.
     
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  14. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,181

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    Wow...those are incredible timing tags!

    Here's one I have, it was given to me by a fellow swapper that knew I'd appreciate it. Sadly he passed away recently....I tinkered with the picture a little to make it easier to read the stampings..but it made it look a little weird. 20220807_145356.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  15. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,375

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Just asking , Maybe I over looked ,
    Why was all these tags in a collection ?
    They looked not to have been mounted Originally to car ,
    A very preserved like new .
     
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  16. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,751

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    My thoughts exactly. They look brand new to me... But we don't have answers I'm afraid. They were in a collection that Fran owned... Randy just wants to get them into any family hands that want them.
     
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  17. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,375

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    ??? More likely all have passed , taken average 20 years old in 49 all would be 90 pule now,, & all tags are Oct & Nov
    Maybe Miss print on time , car # speed , ext .
    Instead of going in trash saved !
    I would think ever person that ran would want that Tag,
    " Accomplishment "

    Little & off topic , Trophies ,
    In my Opinion , most all Trophies handed Out mid 70s to present in power sports Look & are Commercial,
    even @ small tracks
    Not the classic Sterling Silver Cups ,
    Car on pedestal &
    4 foot plus tall
     
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  18. Just wondering if the deuce ever had a six cyl. Chevy in it. Thanks
     
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  19. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 34,176

    Mr48chev
    Member

    This time I am going to say that this suggestion may be the proper way to insure that these pieces are honored. All too many decendents of people who accomplished something in their lives could give a rats ass about great granddad's old _____ memorabilia. That includes old sports awards, military medals and awards and racing awards. It might be far better if somone crafted a nice plaque for them to be mounted on to be displayed in/with the proper dry lakes display at the Peterson Museum. That way they can be honored by those who will appreciate them an not tossed in another junk box and sold at a yard sale in a couple of years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  20. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,792

    ray
    Member
    from colorado

    i'm sure timing tags were, to some racers, similar to car show participation trophies. they were just goin fast. not writing pages for the history books.

    now that i think about it, i think i have an unstamped timing tag from the first HAMB Drags hangin on my shop wall.
     
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  21. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,286

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    Those tag's were reproduced at one time. Are you sure that they are original, they look brand new?
     
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  22. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 26,396

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ryan has an official machine in his shop that he prints our Tags with...I suspect he may have done some visual verification to compare...but we'll see...and if the Association that distributes Tags sold them as trinkets I guess they may in fact have done just that but you'd think it would be verifiable...

    Where were those reproductions sold from your referencing? I just looked online there are a number available but they lack lettering and some the 4 attach holes...I agree, it's easy to imagine shadies selling these for elevated dollars as originals...

    Funny I was thinking they were scooped as the Ole Hotrods were sent to the chopping block...

    I have several Hamb tags sitting around maybe they didn't bother screwing them on...

    They could be scientifically dated I'll bet with a non destructive process...

    Locating kinfolk may yield more stories and relevant material such as never before seen imagery so I think that route is a pretty neat thing to do and if that proves fruitless the Museum sounds great...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  23. Good man with a great plan. HRP
     
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  24. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,181

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    The reproduction tags I've seen don't look anything like the real thing upon close examination. They are silk screened or otherwise painted. Originals have the all the areas that don't have lettering or areas to be stamped, acid etched ( I think that's what it's called). In other words when you rub your fingers over the tag you can feel the letters...they are higher slightly than the red areas in the case of a Russetta tag.

    Why do they look new? I don't think they stamped the tags at the event they were earned...they probably did it later. Even if they did stamp it at the event, what would a guy do with a tag? Probably put it away in a drawer, most never got mounted I'm sure. Lastly..assuming you could find the same acid etched tag, and you stamped some info on there...would you pick someone that nobody's ever heard of? That requires serious investigation to find its history? This is the second real tag I've had..the other Joe Reath was involved. But after much research..no other info could be learned about it.

    I seriously doubt Fran Hernandez would have had reproduction tags.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  25. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,751

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    I think all Russetta tags were silk screened. I know early SCTA tags were acid etched, but I think those are super rare.

    I own the NumberAll that stamped about a third of the the SCTA timing tags from ‘48 until ‘55 or so… What’s cool is that I can tell you which tags my machine stamped due to minor differences in letter spacing and other quirks.

    All alliance tags are stamped with that machine…
     
  26. diamonddrew
    Joined: Jun 3, 2007
    Posts: 134

    diamonddrew
    Member

    Very cool! I'd love to hear the stories if any are claimed.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  27. Early ones were etched, around 1949-on they were silk screened. The reason they were never attached to a car is because you had to pay for the timing tags, most would only collect, pay for the faster times they had done during the meet. This left large amounts of timing tags unclaimed both in SCTA & Russetta. I have had a couple friends tell me sellers at LARS swap in the 1980s had piles of SCTA & Russetta timing tags for sale at $10-$20, all stamped never attached all from the 40s early 50s.

    Don Waite is still alive, I believe @sr still in contact. He restored/preserved Don's A drag roadster and was restoring Don's T lakes roadster
     
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  28. westendofdz
    Joined: Oct 12, 2016
    Posts: 14

    westendofdz
    Member

    I would like to add some additional insight regarding these tags. They were not a collection that my father consciously amassed over time. My brother and I were going through one of his Gerstner Tool Boxes and in a drawer we found these tags. This certainly explains their mint condition. Our best guess is, Dad had them in his possession to pass out at their next club meeting. Obviously, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Back in the late 40s, they were racing every month at El Mirage. These guys had more of these tags than they knew what to do with. No big deal at the time! Certainly no one thought this could be potential treasure 75 years later. Enjoy these tags for what they are, apiece of Hot Rodding history!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2023
    RodStRace, 40two, AHotRod and 10 others like this.

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