This is the question I first should have posed to hamb when I got this car and I apologize for not doing so, maybe it was the excitement of a new project, just not grasping all the different things that will need to be done, or something that after spending a month or so just wrapping my head around the project and really getting an understanding of where I want to go with it, that I am now ready to ask.. Where should I start? What is the best order of operation when it comes to getting things done on my car? I picked it up about a month ago now, and the first thing I did literally the same day I bought it was drop it off at a shop to have the chop fixed, and to get the body back into what I believe is a state that I am able to manage. I am getting the car back this upcoming weekend. For the past month I've chatted with many of you and asked your help and guidance of which I much appreciate, and want thank you all for your feedback. We touched alot of different subjects ride height, suspension type, frame and frame transport, motor/trans combo and today I've received some great information from many of you about stripping rust, and prepping the body. Reading your feedback got me thinking.. There is so much I want to accomplish, but where should I really start? Should I finish off the chop, and the major body work? Should I attempt to build the new frame, should I wait until I can pick up a motor, and trans wheels and tires to mock everything up on the existing frame, or somewhere completely different? This is all very new for me, and while I've put cars together before I've never done so from this state. Here is the car basically as it will sit, when I pick it up on Monday, (with a bit more done to finish the chop and patch panel) , and for reference here are the other threads discussing all the individual questions I posed, (I don't really have a desire to move the wheels out bound anymore so the 4th link is not really relevant but I put in for good measure.) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396329 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385437 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393994 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385436 Thank you all again for your time, and responses. -Brahm
I would do the frame first. If you are building the frame, them start there, that way you have a good foundation to work off of, and you know everything will fit as it should because it was built on the frame it will have once it's done.
Just dive in on whatever man! I would first go to the chassis if it was me, that's just a personal choice, go to the chassis, and suspension, get all that work done and painted, and then go to the engine and get it done and painted. Then concentrate on the body. Also, you get the chassis done and painted and it has the engine in there then it will get your motor running (no pun intended) if your feeling a bit lazy on working on it and get ya thinkin about finshing up. 1shot
Thanks for the responses, that was my original thought to, but that brings up the questions. How do I figure out where the body sits on the new frame to get it to fit right, how to do I figure out the length requirements of the frame, how do I make sure I don't have a drive shaft as an arm rest hahah. ect ect. Which gets me thinking should I mock everything up first on the current frame, and take measurements of everything? This will be my first frame, so there is a good chance that It won't be up to snuff, and I may need to build a couple version. At this time I'm planning on going 4 wheels leaf, and while I did receive some great information in this thread, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393994. I am still a bit fuzzy on how to spec everything perfectly ahead of time so I don't find out way down the road that my tires don't fit under the wheels wells and my transmission is doubling as divider between me and the passenger.
How much different then stock do you want your frame? If you know in your head already what changes you want to make in the frame, but don't know if everything will fit like wheels in wheel wells, then Mocking up with the current frame and measuring for your intended changes is a good idea. I have to assume that since you are a beginner that your are reletivley low on fabrication level, but if you have the commitment and desire to learn you can basically do whatever you want. If you Z the frame and your wheels don't fit in the wheel wells how you want, you can raise them and rework them to fit how you want.
There are a few things I'd like change about the current frame setup. 1) Lower the overall ride height of the car, and from what I've been told and understand the only way to do that with a 4 wheel leaf suspension car is to Z the front frame. I'm thinking that I should probably figure out the height of the leaf spring and the shackle, and then Z the front of the frame by that amount. Making the the bottom of the leaf even with the bottom of the non-z'd portion of the frame. The back has a good natural Z in it, so I think I may copy that but, the leaf spring is also at an angle for that to work, if I straighten out the leaf spring in the back, I then have to increase the amount of space that is Z'd to fit it from where the current spring mounts, to the back shackle. 2) I believe and I could be wrong as I don't have motor to mock up, my current frame is to long it will either leave with me a fair bit of space after the radiator, or between the radiator and the motor. I'd like to snub this all up so the radiator either sits at the end of the frame or with just enough room for a small moon tank. (see second photo for reference) 3) The current frame, the previous owner snubbed the front instead of chopping the middle as ZMAN suggested, the horns are gone, it looks like a hokey hacked up stock frame. 4) I like the look of a rectangle tube chassis, I've seen some very nice ones here on hamb, where guys Z'd them up clean, tapered them, ect and they look great. I'm not sure if I will horn or round bar the front, and I'm not sure I have the skills to taper it yet, but I do think a simple straight basic chassis with a couple Z's hopefully won't be to overwhelming for my first time fab/chassis build. The only problem is I won't have the body with me when I make the chassis. I'll be building it at work. I can't leave the body there. The only way for me to do it will be to spec everything out get all the measurements I need head to work with just a pad of paper saying.. Rear Z plateau 36", 45 degree cut on one end, Z Rear diagonal 24", mid section 44" ect ect.. Then I can just got to work cut everything, make it nice and level weld the frame together, and take it home to drill the mounts and bolt on the suspension and start mock up the body mounts, and motor location.
Build it out of 2x3 or 2x4 lumber first. That way if you make mistakes they are not as costly. Then you can copy it to steel. Also here is a good link to frame building http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150434 Brian Angus writes some pretty good tech stuff.
I going to say frame first. You are going to need a good foundation to build off of. First off you will need to get the motor and trans you're going to run and also your wheels and tires. Without this I have no idea how you would go about setting ride height motor placement ect. Here's a shot of my pick up mocked up on a table. I put everything where it needed to be and connected the dots. Mat
Think of it as a hundred small projects as opposed to one big project. I'd start off creating a roller. With the body bolted to the frame set up the wheelbase, have the grille shell in place with the radiator and engine located. I'd get rid of the front parallel leafs and install a new front crossmember with a transverse setup and dropped axle. Choose a rearend and decide how you want to hang it, and choose a wheel and tire combination.there you have a large handful of projects to get you started. Enjoy the process, it's all about the build.
Start with the frame and make a list... 1. Clean it up (cut off un-wanted brackets, etc...) 2. Square it up. 3. Box it (if that's what you want to do). 4. Mock up the front suspension. 5. Motor mounts. 6. Transmission mount / X member. 7. Put the body back on and see if the rear axle still lines up with the rear wheel well. (if yes proceed to step 9) 8. Measure for rear axle. 9. Pull body back off and mock up your rear suspension. 10. Put the body back on and make sure you got the rear wheel in the right place. 11. Put your master cylinder in. 12. Take the body back off and pulmb your brake lines etc... The list goes on forever, but always have a list. You probably make another five lists as you get further along in the build. Good luck and keep us posted.
My experience is mainly with my Morris Minor, which is a unibody car, but the principle should be the same. The conventional wisdom is, 1. Structure, because the safety of the car depends on the soundness of the structure; 2. Mechanicals; and 3. Cosmetics. I myself am only getting into constructing a ladder-frame car from the ground up. If you're CAD-capable, draw the frame in enough detail that you're sure everything clears everything else by a decent margin. In my experience, component conflicts can cause the sensible idea you had in your head to become a silly solution in practice, and apparently trivial things can send you into redesign cycles that go all the way back to your basic concept. The more you clear up that sort of thing in advance, the less leeway you need when you're physically building, the tighter and more radical your concept can be.
I'll tell you the same thing I tell my customers. Make a list. Write it all down. Everything you need done. Then you can prioritize and schedule it much better. It also brings it all into focus as to where you are trying to go with it. You'll also end up not repeating labor as much. Things that need to be done together can be put into the same category.
OK I'm too lazy to read all the other threads. Order of business: #1 decide what you want the finished product to resemble. IE Competition, Custom somewhere in between? #2 start leaning towards makeing a roller out of it. Collect your axles etc. Start fabbing up a chassis or buy one. You can get basic dimensions from another car that you like or someone can give you wheel base. Yoyu can figure width with a tape measure and your body. Don't worry about bracketry for anything other than your suspension at this point. #3 Set the body over the chassis. Best bet since you have all you are showing is a body tub at this point is to just drop it on there and set you rear wheels where you want them. I usually shoot for the middle of the wheel tub but that's really your choice and governed by the style of car you want to build. Now build the tabs to mount your body. #4 its now time to concentrate on getting your engine and tranny in there. And a good time to think about where you want the radiator and shell to go. Once mounted and made solid you have to decide if you want to or need to freshen your engine or tranny or both. #5 if you haven't already done so plum your brakes get your master cylinder mounted, run a fuel line etc. Think about wireing and how you are going to make that all work. Fire it up if its ready, take it around the block and see what you need to modify to make it all work in conjunction. #6 blow it apart and start doing all your finish work. Stuff to the chromer, finish the body paint the chassis etc. At least in your position and never done it before that's what I would do. One other thing plan your goals small so that you can complete them and not be discouraged. Every once in a while deviate from the plan if you have to in order to do something that you can see. That also helps you not get discouraged. It is not one huge insurmountable project its just a lot of little things that eventually will come together and be what you imagined in the first place.
it won't be the huge amount of work coming at you it will be the huge amount of MONEY required to do that work. ask anyone that does it for a living. sweat equity only goes so far.
Wait...you're in Mammoth?? I just want to know if I can crash come Winter? hahahaha.... You've already got a lot of direction, I would take everyone's advice and apply it to your personality...
Another thing that I wish I could follow myself: One thing at a time. If you can focus on a single endevour until its done, then move onto the other, I'd imagine things will get done a lot quicker.
I agree with Zman: make a list. Whatever component you start with, you will end up skipping around and doing things out of order, even if you don't intend to. Then time will pass before you get back to what you were doing earlier. Write down your plans so you don't get lost and overwhelmed.
I'm just starting, too. I had the exhaust replaced, it's hung. Now it's exactly where I want to run the brake line. How close can I run a steel brake line to a hot exhaust pipe. Help!! 47 Windsor
I would mock up the frame/motor-drivetrain/steering, get that slaved in, but not all welded up. Then drop the body on for a look-see, then back off to complete the chassis.
Dream first, plan next. There are a lot of prior posts covering similar builds, read them and learn what works and what doesn't. See what you like and what you would change. There are plenty of things you can do while this takes place. Rebuild and detail the rear axle, engine and trans you will be using. get the body straightened out. Gather required parts for mockup. You don't want to build the frame and have all the body, suspension and drivetrain mounts built, then try to figure out where the steering is going to fit.
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