Can anyone point out drawing of how an open banjo rear should be safely braced ? Im going to use an auto trans, with open drive shaft… model A. I haven't a clue, so any help will be appreciated. For use with a 4 banger.
You didn't mention what year rear end you are planning to use. I am pretty sure open drive kits only fit V8 rear ends 35-48.
Dont know what details are most needed ? My next question , among many….what HP/abuse will the stock model A rear(that is in excellent condition) handle ? I insert this question here, as I know old timers who race stock A 3rd members. Some say they have never broken one ? The V8 style , ‘35 to ‘48, with the pinion brace, would seem to be a better choice, eh ? ARE THEY ALL SAME WIDTH ? Where is the ‘open’ seal/u-joint available ??
For the cost of the kits to go open drive, you might want be on the look out for a ‘42-7 Ford PU rearend. They are parallel leaf, but since you’ll be doing a modified setup, shouldn’t cause a problem.
In my opinion, Model A rears are useful only behind mild A/B block motors. a hot banger will cream one easily. Try to find a post '37 rear as the guts are better. The 1940 style works best under a model A, the only difference up to '48 (other than spring hangers and radius rod style is the '46 to '48 flavor is about 2" wider and contrary to common belief, is not horrible under an A. Just don't run reversed wheels. Lately the later rears seem to be more common. I love banjos and there is a lot you can do to make them durable. Remember they ran them in most rails up into the early sixties behind everything including Hemis'. A simple rider bolt does wonders for keeping them in one piece. You didn't mention what you were putting up front but nothing looks better under an A than a nice banjo with the stubs sticking out.
Hey Koz, Well, Ive got this almost ready to dyno ….four banger… it’s a D for Donovan. Hope to have couple hundred HP. So, your input about a post ‘37 is most interesting to me. Pic if comes thru… Explain: Rider Bolt ?
I run an open-drive Model A rearend behind a hopped up banger in my '30 coupe, no problems. Here's a story I did that covers the T5 swap and shows what it takes to convert the Model A rearend to open-drive (Speedway Motors parts) as well as the third-link I fabbed to support things. There are a couple good tricks included that might help you out. https://clampdowncomp.com/tech/installing-an-overdrive-t5-transmission-in-a-model-a-ford/
@hardtimesainit I'm pretty sure by rider bolt he means having a bolt that goes into the rear against the ring gear opposite the pinion to counteract deflection. Often referred to as a load bolt.
I did this on my single seater. Its the front portion of the radius rod I heated and bent. keeps the rear end from rotating and adds to the look of an early sprint car.(edit) forgot to say that I cut the cast part off the front of the wishbone where the two bones meet the torque tube and welded it to the rear where it bolts to the top flange bolt
Studebakerjoe is absolutely correct. The sidebolt, usually brass, helps keep the pinion from running up over the ring gear. This is an old dirt track trick that is also commonly found on over the road big trucks as well. The Donovan is insane! I'd love to hear that one wound tight.
Hey Joe, Thanks! I kinda get the picture from your words. Im sure it’s not easy, but I can see where … not allowing the ring gear to ‘move’ outward, would be a simple ‘trick’ worth the effort !
Here, @Jethro covers the bolt. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/partial-tech-unfinished-homebuilt-quickchange.733594/
Hey Koz, Haven’t got it to run yet, but the engine guy used to build and race his own creations. What a creative old dude( well Im older than dirt…he's younger than dirt !). He builds everything from bits/pieces of metal ! His stuff even looks good… ha ! The D is set to be dyno… Oct/Nov this year. This thing will make heart thump. Ever hear of a four banger with FOUR BOLT MAINS ? Yeah that and much more !! I got injured back, and he took over. This man is engine builder. Took me TWO years to even get in the door. Once he saw the engineering in this small space….he actually got interested … said ‘ this thing built like a brick outhouse !! Anyway, I’m not good with skills, but have already bench raced it 1/4 mi…. woke up with smile and sweat same time !! Just need a good LIGHT ride for it. Lucky me, just located a 904 and kit for behind a banger. If I had skills of some here, Id be dangerous, eh ! Thanks to youse guys for any/all help !! Im trying to locate a ‘27 roadster for it. Might get lucky, eh ! If all goes well, I’ll share dyno stats with you. My lopsided avatar shows a little of the builders’ skills. He built the Holly 4brl intake, exhaust… heck… even the custom oilpump set up( from 59 AB) !!
Can't wait! The wildest creative engine I've seen to date is this guy who brings a '27 Dodge ratty 4 dr. to Fall Wildwood. It has two Mazda Wankels back to back with a 650 Holley and an MSD ignition outboard on some homemade drive system. Ugly as hell but the sound is insane out on the road. Way to weird for me. The Donavan is right up there with an Offy for cool as far as I'm concerned and I can't wait to see what you stuff it in.
Hey Joe, Would you happen to have a ‘tech’ article on HOW TO …. for detailed instruction for installing rider bolt in banjo rear end ? NOTE: Many years ago JUST PLAIN BILL (Rest in peace) who was a valued contributor on the Model A forum, instructed on same subject, I think. Cant find Bills’ work, but sounds like Same trick/improvement. Would be nice to compare tech…now and then !!
Hey Koz….because you enjoy cool, here’s Banger porn for your enjoyment ! Notice the rare two piece pan (RUTHERFORD) on floor …right
That is insane! I love it. As close as I've gotten to a hot banger is an early '60's Chevy Iron Duke with a hot cam and a ,030 bore with two 94's on a homemade intake. Actually ran nicely in the bucket. Yours is some real banger porn. I'm watching this one.
FYI, if you search the term "torque arm" you will find more detailed info since that is the actual name for the brace
Hey Tman, Thanks! Every bit of info/guidance helps ! I will ‘search’ term torque arm as you suggest ! More time to use in research now, as Doc says DO NOT go to RPM Nationals tomorrow. Too early …can reinjure back operation of last week !! Like the song says…..’maybe next year’ !!
Another way to search. Go to Google, type torque arm/hamb and it will pulll up threads. You can also use the plus sign here in searches. torque+arm
@hardtimesainit I may have a tech article somewhere but cant recall where. I took these pics today at work thinking they might help. Both sides of a load bolt on a quickchange bell.
Hey Joe, Yeah, those pics are helpful ! I suppose that same info for use with iron stock rear ? If you locate that article, would be great !! Someone mentioned bronze bolt use. Guess that helps with wear, eh ? What a great idea overall, to strengthen Banjo. Any other great tips to strengthen rear ?
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