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Hot Rods Oops! Black Sealer under Red Topcoat

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fortunateson, May 15, 2018.

  1. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Don't know what I was thinking... sprayed a black sealer coat for a red topcoat. I know I should have gone grey, red, or white. So what will the effect of the black under red be? If it will make it darker should the topcoat be made a little light to offset this? Thanks in advance.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. Try a spray out card and see.
    I bet it's darker.
     
    da34guy and 56premiere like this.
  3. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 13,215

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    ask the supplier what the SS code for the primer for the color you choose is. if the paint isn't bought or sprayed yet, you have done no harm. just by the correct color sealer paint and use it as the first coat before spraying paint.
     
    da34guy likes this.
  4. RMR&C
    Joined: Dec 26, 2009
    Posts: 2,642

    RMR&C
    Member
    from NW Montana

    Solid red or metallic? Solid might be okay, metallic will likely be darker.
    Test spray as said above
     
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  5. hotrod1120
    Joined: Jan 22, 2013
    Posts: 212

    hotrod1120
    Member

  6. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 8,275

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Black under red is an old 'trick'. Mostly done with paint (on body metal) it is sometimes done in other places.

    My son has a '27 Track T, interior was tan, (Ugh!) he dyed it black, sanded it, and dyed it red. Beautiful 'Oxblood' now, looks like 1940s.
     
    Shadow Creek and VANDENPLAS like this.
  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 39,470

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    might depend what kind of paint you're putting over it....
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  8. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 874

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There's mistakes and there's happy accidents.
    Like the man said; spray out a test card. You may have a winner anyway and love it.
     
  9. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 3,629

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Darker. Made the same error on a 68 SS Chevelle. I thought the darker sealer would make chips less noticeable under code RR (re-sale red). The car matters because I painted the rear tail light extensions off the car and did not use the dark sealer on them, I used a grey sealer. When I bolted them back on the car, WOW, what a hideous difference it made. I ended up repainted the extensions to match the body.

    That was B/C and Centari if memory serves.
     
  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,433

    belair
    Member
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    red paint is a little translucent. it will probably be darker, but you might like it. Shoot some and find out!
     
  11. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,208

    john worden
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from iowa

    The question is how transparent, if any at all, is the top coat.
    If the color is transparent it will be affected to some degree depending on number of coats.
    If not, spray the color to hiding. Use the checked hiding labels to confirm hiding. Done.
    Lesson learned.
     
  12. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I don't have the paint yet but it is going to solid, no metallic or anything else. My nephew will paint it in his booth and he'll get the paint. I presumed it would be darker. Maybe do the white sealer over the black before actual colour. I don't want to build it up too much though.
     
  13. Ever seen a spray out card ??
    If your nephew has a booth then he's probably got them.
    Spray the card and see how the sealer color changes the final color.
    They have others with block checkers to test for full paint coverage too.
    image.jpeg

    Shoot the sealer too early and you'll need to sand it and reshoot it anyways
     
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  14. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Yep, well aware of the coverage/block checker cards. I'll ask if he has some spray out cards. The colour is going to be a beautiful Burgundy similar to a Jag "Regency Red". I just don't want it to come out too dark. Would mixing the paint formula a little lighter counteract the black sealer? Will have to wait for the spray out card. Than,s for all the replies.
     
  15. That's way above my pay grade.

    I can say for sure that messing with a expensive paint isn't cheap. Custom tint off the hip is an art. You can wind up with a totally different color. I know It's easier to darken than it is to lighten. Seems counterintuitive but making it darker is "subtractive" mixing vs making it lighter is additive mixing. IMG_1128.JPG

    If I'm looking for a nice bright POP I'll use a white sealer. Lots of reds are formulated to be shot over a red sealer so the finished job comes out the as the sample.

    This is a very unorthodox candy job,
    Resulting in "additive mixing" effect. It's pure black no cloudy mica.
    Shop light
    IMG_0014.JPG
    Halogen sun
    IMG_0012.JPG

    I tried way too many damn red bases to get it. Here's just the base cleared.
    IMG_0771.JPG

    I have some more of a motorcycle I did with 2012 Dodge furious fuchsia. Shot a test on white sealer and it was too pink. Shot it on black sealer and it was a fantastic raspberry. Super sharp on a chicks bike. The pics are in the cloud and it won't let me in.
     
    belair and kidcampbell71 like this.
  16. Here are those pics.
    White sealer = bright pink.
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    Same color on black sealer = raspberry
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg

    image.jpeg
     
  17. safetythird
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 45

    safetythird
    Member

    I had the wrong sealer so just went with what I had for a rush job.

    White sealer, red paint.

    It came out So. Very. Pink.
     
  18. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Painting is a black art of equal parts voodoo, Druid practices, sorcery, and chance! Thanks again for all the replies!
     
  19. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 13,215

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    to achieve the color, the formula was made to, some/most paints require the correct shade primer. reds usually don't cover well.
    i did a british racing green paint that i sprayed over a gray primer. 5 coats and the color never looked right, that is when i learned about the ss codes for paint. used ss7, which was black and what the color called for and the color was perfect on the first coat. no voodoo.............
     
  20. That's how I feel about metal finishing. Lol
     
  21. Ever get this one ,,,

    Hey! How did you do that? Magic??

    Oh no, I just read the directions.
     
    tb33anda3rd likes this.
  22. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,074

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    But real men don't read directions....
     
  23. Only the ones that can do magic :p
     
  24. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 13,215

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    twice, after reading the instructions for an ikea bookcase and after reading the karma sutra........
     
  25. Just paint everything black:rolleyes:
     
  26. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    A,lot of humour here on the HAMB but that is all-quality!
     
  27. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 1,660

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Educate me... what is a "SS"?
     
  28. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,245

    thirtytwo
    Member

    Anytime I have done gray / black primer spray outs 90% of the time the color does change but only noticeable when compared

    I had a problem with cheaper alternatives like Omni not having good coverage on top of a gray primer it was almost like candy I had to keep adding coats till the fender blended rest of car
     
  29. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 13,215

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    they use a the ss codes to denote the color of the primer. ss1 is white, ss7 is black. there are greys and reds in between and formulas for mixing them to get the desired shade. the can of grey posted, tells me it is a very light grey. 91pS60uD0OL._SY450_.jpg Unknown.jpeg
     

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