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History Ontario VIN-number font style 1932

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Lidstrom, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Hello,

    I was wondering if anyone can confirm the VIN-number font style on 1932 Ford’s manufactured in Ontario Canada?

    As we know the Ford VIN font style changed (or at least was supposed to change) from ~1931. Obviously everyone did not get that memo, did not know where to get the stamps or just didn’t take the memo seriously.

    So, Was the 1, 6 and 9 stamp replaced in the Canadian Ontario factory for the -32 model or did they continue stamp their frame rails with the old conventional looking numbers?

    I’m also curious if they used the straight dash between the numbers or the double arrow type.

    One last question: when looking at the small amount available pictures of factory frame VIN’s I get the impression that the number 8 stamp looks totally different in the beginning in the VIN from the ones stamped in the end? The first eight (ex. *C18- ) looks like a “snowman” in shape and 8’s stamped after the dash looks more uniformed in top and bottom and perhaps even a bit smaller in size? I’ve not seen the nr. 8-shape mentioned or discussed anywhere so I’m a bit curious about that.

    Thanks for all your help.
     
  2. OLDTINPUSHER
    Joined: Apr 28, 2009
    Posts: 513

    OLDTINPUSHER
    Member

    Best to post to the Ford barn and let David Rehor answer.
     
    gimpyshotrods and lothiandon1940 like this.
  3. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Hello!

    Thanks for the tip, I’ll post a new thread at the Barn-forum as well.
     
  4. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've read guys saying their stamps are different from the norm. I can't remember who or where, but I do recall it. Maybe some plants didn't get the new stamps into the worker's hands in time. Or maybe they lost a digit and had to grab an old one from the tool room? Who knows what could happen as that chassis is running down the line. Can't stop the line!
     
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  5. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Yes there is definitely a very huge variation even within the same production plants.

    I got a reply on the Barn that most -32 fords produced in Ontario did not have any VIN or serials on the frame rails at all.(?) This was totally new to me and nothing I have ever read or heard of before.

    I saw a photo of a VIN from a Ontario built -36(?) if I remember it right. That VIN still had the conventional numbers.
     
  6. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Can you post a pic of yours? Stick some tape over a couple digits if you'd like to "protect your privacy".
     
  7. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,722

    mgtstumpy
    Member

  8. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    If I could I would, but this section was apparently a total loss amongst many other parts of the rails and chassis. Top section around left body mount was one of the sections already repaired when I took over the project. Seller told me it was a total loss and there was nothing to be read out. So if it’s true that I was told at “Barn” that “almost none Ontario -32 had VIN-stamped rails” that could also explain that not even a single digit could be found.
     
  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,745

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So you have nothing, and are looking to recreate the proper appearance? Why not just go with the norm, not the unusual? Do as the Ford factory directed all the plants to do.
     
  10. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Yes, at this point I have a full restoration project (frame and body), and paperwork tracing back to the 40’s when it first was imported here.

    I would like to restore as close as it was when it first arrived here, but I guess I have to draw the line somewhere. I will probably just order the “old style” punches incl. the stars for the shop that will perform the stamping / identify documentation.

    I was about to order those punches a few days ago but then I started digging on the font subject and the hole just kept getting bigger with more questions. I guess sometimes you just should do it and don’t think about it so much wasting build time.
     
  11. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    I “believe” the closest to correct is the old style.
    I saw a picture of a ~36 Ontario car VIN and that still had the conventional font.
     
  12. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,657

    Corn Fed
    Member

    I dont know about the Ontario plant, but I know for a fact that the Saint Paul Mn plant was using the old font for at least the begining of the 32 production. I have two early 32s that were made there and they both have the old fonts on the frame. The one that still had the 4 cylinder in it had the new font on the bellhousing....but all engines were made in Detroit.
     
  13. C69A
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 79

    C69A
    Member

    Is this what you want[​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  14. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Yes!

    That is definitely very interesting!
    What year is your car?

    For what I can tell (if I’m not totally mistaken because it looks kinda “thick”) they still used the “old style” font (at least for the No.1).
    Another thing is they used the double-arrow dash. Very interesting.

    You don’t need to post picture or tell the remaining part of your VIN, but can you confirm the “old style” font if you have any 1, 6 or 9’s in your remaining number?

    The old style looks conventional just like the regular “1,6,9” but the new style the 1 looks like an capital “I” and the 6 and 9 both have straight lines like a mirrored “P” or “b”.
     
  15. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    I just remembered your car obviously also must be a 32 because of the “R” and it is manufactured a little bit later than mine.

    Definitely very interested of more information if it contains any of those new or old 1, 6 and 9’s. Since your car was manufactured after mine it would be more than likely to assume the same font style was used on my frame as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  16. C69A
    Joined: Jun 6, 2008
    Posts: 79

    C69A
    Member

    The vin only has a 1 no 6 or 9, the one is the early style.
    Here is a 1934 transmission still early numbers, maybe they never changed over.[​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  17. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Thank you so much for your reply and this picture!

    Yes, I would definitely say this proves that they never changed over.

    I don’t think it’s possible to get a more straight answer and verification than that. And according to this picture and the one posted earlier from the -32 VIN they definitely also used the “double arrow” dash. I did also get a reply (no picture) from a owner of two C-VIN cars, he wrote both of his cars have the old-style fonts as well, BUT, the simple straight dash line. So I guess double arrow or straight line is one of those historical mysteries and it’s impossible to fully understand why they seemed to have both punch-types laying around in the production.

    I will probably go for the double arrow.
    To bad it cost ~$170 by itself (+ shipping and tax) to be used one single time.
     
    koolbeans likes this.
  18. koolbeans
    Joined: Apr 12, 2015
    Posts: 412

    koolbeans

    Why not share it out to reduce the cost? I would be interested.
     
  19. Lidstrom
    Joined: May 14, 2019
    Posts: 18

    Lidstrom

    Well that could definitely be an option.
    But I do live in Sweden.

    I also really don’t know if I like to look of those $170 double arrow retro-punches they are selling. In every VIN picture I’ve seen (like in the pictures above) when double arrow being used the arrow points are completely filled. The ones they are selling looks more like <-> with sharp pointer lines. Sure I have to take in consideration that the original frame and gearbox VIN’s I’ve seen is 90 years old, but I really don’t think that they all would change and get blurred out so no sharp lines could be detected.
     
  20. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 924

    rusty valley
    Member

    i have a canadian 34, should be the same style, and the frame numbers are bigger than the trans numbers, and bigger than us frames. on my frame, two of the numbers are small, while the rest are the bigger type. so...did the guy on the line drop one of his big stamps and just use the small one the rest of the day??? and, there is no arrow on the canadian frame. the tranny has the filled in type arrow, and of about 15 other us trannys i have here, some have a dash, some have the plain arrow, and some have nothing. i have found using an air hammer works well for stamping. regulate the pressure down to about 30 lbs, and duck tape the stamp to a flat bit, and hold your hand around that. it takes quite a bit of time to get a deep stamp. original numbers were never straight and perfectly lined up, they were in a hurry
     
  21. quickchangeV8
    Joined: Dec 7, 2010
    Posts: 357

    quickchangeV8
    Member

    Ontario Canada 1932 Ford frame numbers don't follow any real pattern at all. Some of the early 1932 Ford frames starting with the prefix B were actually made in Detroit and brought across the border into Canada, and the rest of the car was assembled on that frame here in Ontario. These would be the 4 cylinder models. Some of the frames as mentioned before had no numbers at all punched into them. I have seen numbers on a few Ontario frames and the ones that I saw had the early Model A style numbers. A couple of the frames had a capital D punched into the center of the series of numbers in no particular order as both frames had that capital D in different places. One can only guess at what the numbering process actually was, or if there were even any numbers that would follow any series at all.
     
  22. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    And as noted above...Ford USA was plagued by people who did not get the word. Our change was in 1931, but in 1937 a service bulletin went out complaining about pre-change stamps being still in use within the empire.
    But...I really would not consider USA frames at all. There were a LOT of differences (Including the ENTIRE SYSTEM for assigning numbers!) between Canadian and US numbers. Many parts flowed across the border for many reasons, and a US Frame going into Canada would NOT even have had a number until it met up with a complete power unit (engine and trans) on a Canadian assembly line.
    US engines flowing into Canada after maybe 1943 even added a feature to US blocks to maintain full interchangeability within Allied Ford trucks, I believe. Blocks from somewhere in the war up to 1953 have a little shallow spot cast to mark the location for a third oil port, so the Canadians would have a proper drilling location for their full flow engines with filter systems or oil coolers that emerged during the war.
     
    Moriarity likes this.
  23. xix32
    Joined: Jun 12, 2008
    Posts: 460

    xix32
    Member

    I bought a `32 5W in Winnipeg in 2004. The frame that came with it ( no telling if it was the one it was made with).
    Was a clean unpitted frame that had the C18- **** number stamped in near the left firewall foot, just like the American frames I have. But there were not any numbers stamped at the other two normal locations on the left side frame rail, like the American frames I have. I thought that was rather odd. I do not have that car any more, so I cannot post a photo, sorry.
     

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