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Technical One way flush old iron duke?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fstarocka, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    Hi all bearded and non bearded old timers!

    Can I use the oil psi to pump out oil? Then for every quart pumped out I can refill from top - or should I just do conventional drain/refill?

    I got a 4 banger at the shop i rebuilt (bored er out on the old van norman 20 over) - unfortunately she wiped a cam lobe so replaced with good used (yes matched lifters). Tried doing a quicky on er buy just dropping oil pan and removing rod bearings and a good crank case clean etc - but she had more metal coming thru so tore here down COMPLETELY last week. Spent the whole today meticulously cleaning the lot - the oil pan alone took about 10 washes before the glitter was gone.

    Same with block, heads etc - removed the oil galley plugs, cam plug, removed head, oil pump, EVERYTHING got cleaned with gas and checked 4 times (im SUPER meticulous).

    After running for 10 mins this even im so dismayed to once again see some particles in the oil!!!

    2moro im buying 4 oil cans and 4 filters and gonna flush the living heck out of this thing.

    The rod bearings looked god, mains too - cam fine, thrust bearing good, I cant find a single darn smoking gun apart from the fact that it wiped a lifter (BADLY) before teardown-


    At my wits end!! Dont mention a tohatsu 9.8 which carb just keeps flooding (had it off 15 times now and ive been doing carbs for 20 years!), oh adda ford 5.0 with 3 attempts to get intake to seal right!
     
  2. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    fyi - checked rod bearings for giggles and it was spot on - 1.5 thou.. everything in the bottom end looked real good- motor had maybe 10 hours on it before lifter (and cam) was gone - i verified during the cam swap that the pushrods were rotating -
     
  3. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 17,778

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

  4. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 626

    TrailerTrashToo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Pumping oil out will not remove the metal flakes from the bottom of the pan.
     
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  5. karl share
    Joined: Nov 5, 2015
    Posts: 103

    karl share
    Member

  6. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,389

    BJR
    Member

    You missed April fools Day by a bunch!
     
    67L36Driver and bobss396 like this.
  7. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    Not drunk I think it's not written out clearly apologies..

    I assembled it from scratch yesterday after a complete teardown and clean and idled for 10 minutes.. still signs of glitter. I'm wondering if there was some residual left overs inside the block or oil pressure relief cavity causing this, everything was squeaky clean.

    to recap:
    bored and assembled yr ago.

    wiped a lobe so removed oil pan, cam, rod and main caps, cleaned everything in crank incl oil pan then re assembled.

    ran for an hour, still metal signs. I'm hoping 3 consecutive flushes will clean it up

    complete teardown and meticulously cleaned it. washed oil pan 10 times alone, oil galleys etc.

    Re assembled the lot yesterday and STILL some glitter! no spun rods or anything.

    I'm hoping 3 consecutive flushes will clean out the remnants
     
  8. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,759

    ROADSTER1927
    Member

    If you are not going to clean it out Mount a couple magnets in it and hope for the best.
     
  9. Vimtage Iron
    Joined: Feb 28, 2010
    Posts: 533

    Vimtage Iron
    Member

    I've seen in some manuals from years ago to use diesel to flush an engine, BUT years ago diesel had enough sulpher in it that it was somewhat oily and it would carry out the crap, todays diesel is like water no lube to it, kerosene was also used for a flush.
     
  10. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    I have used diesel many times - esp with a cracked head/blown gasket.. very good at washing out the milky stuff and thinning it out- just 1-2min runs max cold of course..

    I was trying to ascertain if one could use the oil psi hole as an "out" and just run clean diesel as it comes out there -

    Is the oil psi port on inline GMs before or after the oil has gone thru the bearings/lifter galley etc?

    Grabbing 3 $12 oil jugs from HD this am -
     
  11. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,443

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    If your still getting that much metal I would suspect something is eating itself apart.

    I used ATF in the past to flush

    couple of strong magnets on the pan to catch stuff
    Then drop the pan and clean.

    I dunno something does not sound right.with seeing that much metal after a complete and thorough cleaning
    Pulled the oil pump a part and used bottle brushes and Blew air through all the oil passages ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  12. This is gonna sound mean and I hope that no one takes it that way but it sounds like someone did not assemble a clean motor.
     
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  13. Let see year's ago I used to Wash my Engines with TIDE & Air

    Than assemble the Engine Very carefuly & Make sure that there
    is nothing binding!

    Just my 3.5 Cents

    Live Learn & Die a Fool
     
  14. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,511

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    That's not " mean" in any way , shape or form , seems there's a few who believe throwing good money after bad is somehow smart / traditional / whatever ??
     
  15. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    crank turned fine after mains and caps - we spent 4 hours cleaning everything.. like i said the inside of the block was insanely clean - we used gas and an outboard pump to spray in there rotating / blowing off -

    I put in a good used OEM oil pump - the enginetech one I had was a piece of junk - it worked but i wouldnt want a chinese pot metal oil pump so ditched it..

    I blew out every crevice i could possibly find - ran gas, brake cleaner and compressor thru all the oil holes, push rods, we disassembled each lifter - cleaned and re-assembled..

    We went to TOWN on this thing - and not a single bearing has bad wear - this thing is giving me grey hair.

    Picked up 3 cans of $13 oil from HD - gonna run a diesel oil mix and do 5 consecutive flushes -

    Hence the question IF I could use the oil psi port to as a one way flush hole but I think draining via the oil pan will get the lower stuff out too..

    I have done this many many times and for the life of me just cannot figure out what the heck is going on. Im wondering if the oil bypass on the block might have trapped sth (round burgundy/brown plug behind oil pump) - not sure if this is removable..
     
  16. TCTND
    Joined: Dec 27, 2019
    Posts: 99

    TCTND
    Member

    Are you sure it's metal? If you used any assembly lube you might be seeing the moly particles in it. People often are shocked at the amount of "break in wear" they see after the first oil change, but it's really just moly.
     
  17. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,768

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I would have taken the block and parts to the machine shop and had them vatted if I found all that crap in there from the beginning.
     
    1934coupe likes this.
  18. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,015

    1934coupe
    Member

    How about INSIDE the crank oil passages, INSIDE pushrods, INSIDE oil pump. You get the picture, many years ago a reputable engine shop said not to clean engine parts with gasoline because it left a residue. Thats what they said I don't know enough to prove or disprove, just stating what I was told.
    Good Luck, Pat
     
    lippy likes this.
  19. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,687

    khead47
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And a magnet will not catch bearing material.
     
  20. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,759

    ROADSTER1927
    Member

    Bearing material is a death sentence anyhow!
     
  21. bill gruendeman
    Joined: Jun 18, 2019
    Posts: 329

    bill gruendeman
    Member

    I would use the magnet to try and catch some of the glitter to see if it from the cam lobe or bearing material. And don’t pump gasoline around for a cleaner you could end up with a new hair do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  22. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,262

    Gman0046
    Member

    Reminds me of the old saying "you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter".
     
    karl share likes this.
  23. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 136

    Fstarocka
    Member

    well removmed cam bearings - my neighbor was a chief engineer for a funny car team so knows a few things - he looked it over a few times and told me the stuff was def babbit - only bearings i didnt change were cam bearings - they looked pretty ok but waiting for a new set-

    Will hopefully have it back together this week or next and see what happens :/
     
  24. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,971

    rottenleonard
    Member

    Thats what I was thinking, if you drain the break-in oil and shine a light on it it looks like fine metalic paint. As long as there is no metal particles your fine.
     

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