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Projects Olds Rocket 324 in a 32 Ford; "trying to finish it thread"..

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F&J, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Tell you what...buy some spare banjo parts. I have a CT 70+ friend that moved to Virginia, he has a 38 chevy coupe built up a bit 57 371 2x4 he built in retirement. He had tons of Olds powered cars as a teen. Fat fender chevys, olds bodied, etc. He gets going, talking about getting fresh Atlas Buchrons, out strret racing the hottest cars around...and the parts he broke

    ...speaking of broken parts behind Olds, another CT ex-airport drag racer..still has the orig 37 chevy coupe, ran a 324 w/371 heads , every cam and rockers ever made, every carb setup etc,, still in basement went he quit in 62 because " I bought new M&H slicks , went right to the factory to get fresh ones....then I broke so many parts, I quit dragging" His name is in "cool Cars Square Rollbars"as class winner some airport drag in Mass. Back to my forgotten point .. he never threw anything away. the basement had so many broken gears, shafts, stuff twisted to hell...he says: "you want any of this?" Holy Moley

    .
     
    Paul likes this.
  2. it takes a few good runs to get "confidence" in a fresh build.
    i remember back you mentioned driving a vw as a daily driver, in comparison ANY v8 will feel "overpowered".:D;):cool:
     
  3. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I am hoping the 7.60-15 bias plies will be the "fusible link" in the system.:D
     
    F&J likes this.
  4. Exactly right; high torque, low weight, and even with a relatively high final gear you will get good grunt
    through the mid-range. Resisting a close ratio trans for a wide ratio also improves the formula.....
     
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  5. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member



    Today Forecast:

    Patchy drizzle with a slight chance of showers before 11am, then patchy drizzle after 4pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 66. North wind around 5 mph becoming calm in the morning. Chance of precipitation is 20%.


    Today might stay dry for more trips to sort out the twitchy feel on the faster straight State roads. I will go from 27 PSI front down to a drastic change to 20, so I will know "something" right away, rather than a couple PSI at a time.

    The original Firestones are too stiff as they seem like the old light-truck tire construction. I do have blackwall repro Firestones, same size with normal sidewall feel, but I don't have Porta-Walls :(

    It's not a caster issue> My son took his hands off the wheel when it was boiling the first trip, and was rushing home on straight State road....He said: "Look, with my hands off the steering wheel, it tracks perfect like on rails, but when I put one hand on the steering wheel, the weight of my hand steers the car a bit". The Ross ratio is just too fast. I will get around that somehow, as it feels so nice on our curvy back roads. I won't shorten the pitman, because I want full turning radius.

    .
     
  6. .......and you can't put a bigger steering wheel on.
    does lowering the tire pressure usually stop "twitching"? i wonder what putting more air in would do? maybe try it both ways?
    what ross box was it?
     
  7. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Ted, this will be only the 3rd trip out so far! Sorting... you know.

    Higher pressure would be the opposite effect I would think. I am hoping that soft front tires will "dampen" the initial first slight moving of the steering wheel.

    What is going on, is the brain overcorrects. If you let go of the wheel it tracks fine. Not making a dumb joke here, but I bet a drunk person would not have it twitching...his perceptions of what the car is doing are slow, and his movements of hands are slowed.

    I'm tempted to lower the rears but it will screw up "proper, one step at a time" trials.


    Ross boxes: These have been around forever, with their unique peg and worm design. The single peg design is flawed, in that the inner arm on sector where the peg is, it swings in an arc. The peg wants to run off the upper and lower ends of the worm....so they just limited the degrees of sector rotation!

    My Stock 32 Nash has a Ross OEM. That car has a very poor turning radius due to the limited rotation deal. Nash chose to sacrifice the turn radius, in favor of being able to steer the wheels during parallel parking type steering situations. If they made a longer pitman arm to get better radius, it would steer awful when not moving...

    My Ross is an Cast iron one from early 50s. I lengthened the pitman to get the Ford steering arms to get to their factory stops.
     
  8. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    .. Ross knew the issue, and it's limitations....so later on, they went to a Twin -Peg system: As one peg starts to run off of the worm, the other peg takes over. That works in both directions because the peg centerlines are 90 degrees to the worm when straight ahead driving. Clever, but simple.

    .
     
  9. funny, i drive a '39 gmc as an "everyday" driver [not snow/ice days] and i drive the worn steering box straight without wander because i am used to it. i get customers that say "can you check out my car it is all over the road", i drive it and it feels fine....to me. there everyday cars can do ninety miles an hour, on 6-84 while texting and reading the paper. i think this old stuff needs some getting used to sometimes.
     
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  10. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    ,update trip 3 and 4:

    Son not available I went out alone. All I changed was dropped front tires to exactly 20 with a sensitive low pressure gauge I bought for running the deep ocean beach sand with 4x4 truck camper. It's 20 for sure.

    Left turn out driveway onto straight State road. Each time prior, getting just past a certain house is when it feels twitchy. Shocked it was SO different, really good considering they still are stiff walled tires, and bias.

    Quick turn across river to another less used State straight road with mild sweeping turns, just started to chill out with no cars behind, hit some mild washboard and a little dance. (spooked me off-guard)
    Then better surfaces, I was realizing the nice float ride over typical frost contoured roads...tiny dips, rises, etc Nice....really nice.

    Got to where a major busy road starts, so turned around to go back in a lot, heading sharp downhill accelerating, and pushed a few drops out the "no gasket cap". Temp is fine, can't barely be 180 (estimate).

    Get home, just went inside and son shows up. He offered to drive us around. I said take it alone, battery will still mess it up weight wise. (it never crashed on my trip, or hit the taillight wire)

    He was gone longer that I, parks it, and I look out the house window and he's waiting in the car? I said what's up, he said it just started climbing the temp gauge and spit some out. Car was just shut off a minute, and I heard some gurgling like boil bubbling in rad, but gauge not hot enough, but suspiciously higher.

    Waiting to pull the cap, I asked about the entire testing of the whole car. First words were "twitch is 10 times better" and much later on he said "When I got more miles on, I stopped being hunched forward, and just layed back in the seat", he said when he did that, it's perfect. He went on about it was so nice on the faster road with some long sweeping curves, and it feels stuck to the road for a solid axle car (and he never drove bias that I recall)

    Pulled cap off, more animal hair hooked on pipe up top, the water stains all over car and white roof all looked super dirty. Pulled lower hose off radiator when hot, hoping to get loose stuff out. Flow test good, and we both were looking for trash/color which we saw. Tried block petcocks, and were barely draining. I have these valve bodies on with Teflon tape finger tight, so I can take them out easy from topside. Both plugged solid, needed a twig to keep poking.

    more talk about all the plusses at this early stage of fine tuning a build, he likes it so far. He said a lot of drivers giving thumbs up.

    next deadline; he leaves for NY Salmon trip Wed night, temporary plates run out this Friday, so we have to drive or trailer for VIN verification. He says we can make it across town to there, I'm not sure.

    .
     
  11. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Motor cooled off so I just the ran garden hose in filler neck with block drains out, lower hose on. Left drain flows out straight and fast. Right side flowing at an angle, and changes angle when I use a stick in there with hose still overflowing for decent pressure. Something too big to come out that hole.

    Put both drains valves back in, then with filler still overflowing from garden hose, yanked off lower hose from rad nipple. I saw some dark objects and think they mostly came from the hose to pump housing.

    I put hose back on a few times to do same rapid flush, never was any water borne color but saw the dark objects at least 3 tries.

    Should have put a sheet on the ground to see what they were. I looked in the grass...acorns. I peeled a few apart to see if they recently fell from the big Oak nearby. They were soft/smushy but did not smell like vinegar, but they had to be what I saw. Acorns just started dropping a week ago, so these are old ones.

    Ok, rad was plugged with something smaller/hair mold etc, in those tiny tubes, but I also think mice hauled acorns into my engine.

    thinking chair may help; I still don't want to tear major things apart for an acorn hunt. No humor intended.

    .

    .
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  12. i hate mice! and i never was a fan of cats, but the mice problem around here had gotten out of control. every old car came in with a mouse. those little buggers can do some serious damage. i picked up a ferrel kitten who turned out to be one hell of a mouser and being raised around cars he is good shop company.
    is it easy to get to the block plugs?
     
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  13. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Some of them , yes for sure. Lakes headers let my hands get near both lower block sides easy, from up top. The drivers side flow never changed....very fast straight steady. I have a full set of Olds core plugs donated to me, every size needed. (and I know WHERE they are in this mess)

    Something is in RT side. Those soft acorns I inspected, seemed like it's going to take forever to decompose in there.

    I will look at a spare pump housing in the AM. I want to figure out where they did a likely stash. The hair in radiator could be related, I just don't know. I wish a Stat was in for years, as they could have gone in the intake through the top hose connection.

    The acorns seemed saturated enough not to float. There were not a dozen, I think. How do I count acorns near an oak tree in autumn...without smashing each one open.


    My garage-only kitty, named kitty, was a fierce adversary. Passed away a year ago. I don't want another stray. It's tough when something happens. Ohhh I will get those evil things as soon as I get caught up here.

    .
     
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  14. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Supposed to be rainout today but sun came out and it is warmer today, so I really wanted to test drive to see if removing those acorns helped..

    My son turned the car around in a very tilted gulley yesterday and scuffed that taillight wire socket again, so I removed the housing to see if there was room to put the bulb sideways so it cannot ever happen again.

    Stock matching pairs of these Chevy housings, have a clear small side lens that gives light in those cars trunks for getting things like spare tire out in dark. Lucky me, as that bucket was the one with the lens hole, and the hole faces the trunk like I need. There is no room for a snap-in modern bulb holder, so I uncrimped the chevy bulb holder, knocked the (painted-over) lens out, then soldered the chevy holder to the housing for a perfect ground. I had to angle the holder a bit so the bulb can be removed, then a straight distributor wire boot, instead of the destroyed angle one:
    DSCN0742.JPG DSCN0743.JPG

    After I took the pics and was sealing the old hole... It hit me: how can this possibly go back through the fender hole? Geez, I had to die-grind the hole bigger, but did not go too far.

    A friend showed up just when I wanted to warm it up. He owned a full service station and repair shop for two decades near the main interstate during the V8 era, and saw all sorts of heat issues on highway travelers cars.

    We started it up, looking at water level, dash gauge and radiator probe in tank. Ran 10-15 minutes, and all seemed fine. He watched the rad probe, I was at dash gauge. He said it did not reach 150 and then it started to "Push" a short column of water up, then calm down, then another push at 30 seconds later, for 4 or 5 times. He said it was climbing quicker at probe, and the dash gauge confirmed that temp rise.

    I shut it off and heak soak did not get to boil, I believe.

    He felt rad core every square inch, he says it's definitely not right there. But why these water rises if no audible steam bubbling after the rise retreats? No stat installed that caused the last rises



    ...and...he spotted that my recent new fuel pump diaphragm was leaking gas out the vent. I ran out of rabbits in my hat...... I don't have any new membrane left to fix it. :(

    Son showed up, and looked up all the closest VIN verification stations, and said he might have time to trailer it before his trip on Wed. Sheesh.

    I think I may just let the temps run out,.... my friend thinks that won't be a DMV violation, if I trailer it next week instead, but still have insurance in case they assume I was sneaking it out with no plates

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  15. good solution on the tailight . can you put a bump stop on the axle/spring to stop it from hitting?
     
  16. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    No, there were stock ones from factory and only the sheet metal holder remains now. I glued 1/4" rubber there. 32 frames suck in that area. There is not enough room without a C notch, and mine had old fishplates welded up in there that look too hard to get out for C notch. I will be OK when I get lighter battery for those very random hits now.


    What is going on with heat? I know the rad is still not up to snuff, but gauges are low when this thing "starts" whatever is going on.

    Is it a tiny remote blocked hot spot in block, that adds to an air bubble with tiny steam bubbles? Both gauges are below the former T-stat opening temp on the gauge, so could this be what it is?

    I am coming down with same nasty cold virus my son had, He said I will be 100% useless for 4 days.. Lucky me
    .
     
  17. sure sounds like a crack.........but maybe there are nuts moving around. did i ever say i hate mice?
    i don't think it is a problem to let the temps lapse but Dannal may charge you again.
    if your son has time to run it over and all your numbers are clear that would be good peace of mind and "healing" thoughts.
    get better.
     
  18. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Ok, but if my memory is ok, I am certain we ran the car round and round for way longer 4? years go, messing with chassis tweaking, etc etc.

    Seems like 20 minutes is the max now, road or yard makes little difference in the time it takes...? Maybe a little longer on road...not sure anymore

    getting sicker by the hour now and can't think this out

    .
     
  19. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Yesterday twin trips. I left yard with prewarmed up, maybe 160. All went fine.

    Got back at what looked 180 where it always ran 4 years ago on long runs around track/
    Son then takes it back out at same 180 temp leaving here. Goes longer than I, comes back just at boil point, but not volcano

    we flush to find acorns, flush more till none show. And today we get to boil point at 1000 to 1200RPM in 20 minutes, Does not seem sensible , if some nuts were now removed
    Twin trips with "load" were longer than that.
    .
     
  20. since you drained it before this last test maybe it is just an air pocket. i had a chevy pickup with a six do that when it was initially filled, push it out the cap like a fountain, then never do it again.
    maybe it is justa wall-a-nuts ablockin.
     
  21. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    So much going on with the car, recent memory gets mixed up.

    When I had those T-Stat related gushes, then took it out, all seemed fine...like really figured out... finally.

    So, it could be what you say of trapped air, but I fill the same way each time.

    Maybe this is "moving" trash in the block, as then it would be very erratic and unpredictable.

    not getting frustrated really. Things happen. Rest of car getting dialed in good. :)

    .
     
    tb33anda3rd likes this.
  22. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Looking for opinions on a potential, accurate-as-possible test to look for cracked block/head, or slight headgasket leak into water passage"

    Plan A:

    - fill system full, plain water
    -run motor 2-3 minutes only, but at high rpm to chase air pockets out (no stat)
    -Shut off, then clamp lower rad hose completely pinched.
    -remove belt to stop the water pump
    -pull off upper rad hose and without loosing water in it, rotate hose so it points up to see inside of it.
    -let motor go cold.
    -start motor, run at idle for 2-3 minutes only, and see if any "rhythmic" air bubbles show in the hose before hot spots boil.

    any ideas? This will be tomorrow, as I may bypass the mechanical leaking fuel pump, run my electric booster pump that is at the tank.....and try to make it to the closer VIN verification station.

    .
     
  23. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,643

    Paul
    Editor

    I do it as part of a typical leak down test.
    I removed the ceramic from a spark plug and welded a quick disconnect to the plug body,
    roll the engine over to top dead center for suspect cylinder
    screw the modified plug in that plug hole and connect the charged air hose
    and watch for bubbles in radiator,
    for rings listen for air rushing at oil fill,
    for valves listen at carburetor and tail pipe.
     
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  24. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    I am positive I did this back when it overheated years ago at cam break-in. It passed. Thanks!

    ok, where are we an hour ago? :
    20161004_162205.jpg

    We are at a certified smog/VIN station. Yea... Look ma, no Trailer... :)..and no water under the rad..

    Geez, I am fortunate to live close to a smaller city with a large Hispanic community. Why? Because the Spanish people from PR as well as South American countries truly are excessively passionate about cars. They are not kinda shy about coming right up to strangers with a huge smile, and get into car talk bigtime. Other people here do sometimes drop their stifled upbringing and talk, but not nearly like this.

    Two guys got to the car before it even stopped! one guy dropped what he was doing on a smog test :) Then the older Caucasian female who runs the office scoots right out and says" I love the car...and it has those small wipers up top" "are those the ones you need to keep clicking the switch to have them stop in the right spot?" wow, how does she know that as she looked barely 50 yrs old...

    Had to wait a while till the head guy could do the VIN. He said I don't know where it is on this year...so I said right here, I put chalk so you can see better, but don't burn your hand on the pipes. He slightly puts his hand on the cone and said, yea, I know. LOL

    Later went in to pay and get the paper, I asked the woman "you don't look old enough to remember those old wipers? She said "I'm 54 but when I was 16, I dated a guy who had a 34 or maybe 35 Ford, and he always had to keep doing the switch" haha, Her first car was a 65 Mustang..

    one other worker told my son that he and his Dad are building a 38 Ford gasser !

    Well, while we are there, let's get gas, for the 32 and a can for the lawnmower. Sooo,...a perfect time for an American Graffiti "Milner in 32, passing the gas pumps"at the end of movie.. ha..
    20161004_163428 (1).jpg


    On the way home, we had a plan as to which best places to pull off the right side of the busy State road if it was ready to boil hard. I am behind and halfway there, a 6" wide spray could be seen under left part of front end. It looked exactly like those State Highway trucks that spray paint the center line on roads. I fully expected him to turn into the next preplanned spot, but he went a bit faster??? He passes the last one nearer home, and it was only random sprays. We get in our lot and expected he did a shutdown down the driveway...no he is doing a 3 point turn WTH?

    Car was not boiling, but did do the gauge spike after 3 minute heat soak.

    Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a shit LOL...I am so stoked I am done with jumping hoops.. yes, yess
    , YeEESSssss. said that Meg Ryan chick in that famous movie. haha

    Car does not crabwalk, and all looks excellent while following at different distances.

    I also found out that a old rad shop I forgot is still in business, so that will happen later, I can do short drives to sort the car, rather that pull it out now.

    The rad is still plugged good, When I filled the empty system today by gallon jugs, it made gurgling noises for at least ten minutes,then I got tired of listening.

    I'm real happy today. I made up a 180 fitting that made the fuel pump bypass a piece of cake, did not have to bend any pipes or add to the flex. Nice!

    .

    .
     
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  25. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,643

    Paul
    Editor

    Great news Frank!
     
    F&J likes this.
  26. WOW! 100 attaboys Frank.............I knew you would get it done. Car looks just awesome, bet you are stoked now. Have fun driving it around. you have waited a long time for this.
     
    F&J likes this.
  27. Frank, was hoping to see the car at the jalopy showdown.
     
  28. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Two weeks to the day since I was last on HAMB. Reason One is I have been sick as a dog for 3 weeks since I got the temporary plates...and still sick. Reason two I refuse to discuss. (something to do with rewriting history) Temps ran out for a week till I felt good enough to go to DMV.

    So, todays several posts are about "real history", and how we all sometimes forget...

    My only other hobby is Metal Detecting, searching for relics dating from the birth of our Nation.

    so I needed to get a good sweat to kill this virus...so I took the 32 today to do both hobbies. I wanted to try huge hayfield now that it was cut. So, I stopped at many historic places in Coventry CT.

    First stop was the grave of Nathan Hale, Rev War hero that gave his life for us.
    DSCN0752.JPG

    DSCN0753.JPG

    DSCN0754.JPG


    While I was parked there, I took pic of a traditional colonial wealthy persons home across the road. Note the color for my next post in a moment...... "tradition"....

    DSCN0755.JPG
    ..
     
  29. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    Left there and next stop was Nathan's home which survived over 3 centuries and is museum/ tourist destination. It is very unusual to see such very large home of this age and rural location.

    DSCN0756.JPG

    DSCN0757.JPG
    The odd thing that is apparent to me, is that these huge rural homes rarely had neighbors. There are only 3 known homesites on this road. One survives, and one is long gone....both are very close by.

    I believe this neighbors home below, is now for the Hale Caretaker. You get free housing in that job. Part of it is a museum too, I think.
    DSCN0759.JPG

    ^^^ where I was standing or the above pic, I am in front of a stone monument of the third former home; a friend and fellow patriot that served with Hale..This "lost" home is directly across the road. Note the colors of these houses... they were restored as they once were, not chosen by modern trends..

    DSCN0758.JPG
     
  30. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217

    F&J
    Member

    I left there to head for the field to get a sweat going.... This is a very unusual field for eastern Ct in the hill country. It is dead flat...and huge. This land must have been parceled out by a Colonial Governor, to very "connected" person. The King appointed Governors to parcel out land in 1500 acre plots I believe. In some cases in my town, they were 500 acres. Most very early landowners in the mid to late 1600s here, lived in a stockade village to be safe from Indian attacks and rogue groups of other Europeans.

    I can't find maps of this area before 1890, and those USGS maps show no homes near this rare big field. I will go back after a one-inch snow, to see if I can spot an unknown cellar hole in the woods nearby.

    DSCN0760.JPG

    On the way home, I stopped at well known cellar hole, to show what they look like. They are "almost" always right at the edge of the road. That is due to deep snow and mud seasons.

    Here I am parked in what was the cart path right off the tar road. look close to see stacked stones. The earliest settlers often built temporary cabins on dirt for the duration of clearing cropland and
    building animal shelter. Then they built a real home on stone in a few years
    DSCN0761.JPG

    DSCN0762.JPG

    The important part of recorded history, is it helps explain certain things we see. Right across the road, is a very unusual deep and long, "jog" in the stone wall. I found out on a video, that these long jogs often were donated land for a one room school house. This could be that, and the school teacher would have been the wife from the home across the road. There are no other homes on this road

    Barely see the jog below:
    DSCN0763.JPG

    That's it or now. I did fix the radiator with drain cleaner, and now it run too cold. LOL

    Car runs stops rides handles great

    /
     
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