Olds Cam questions...

if the distributor gear is different,
..then YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME CAM.

 

I have no advice for you I just had to make a post so my count wouldn't be six six six when I went to bed. Ha Ha

 

the gear is identical... there is no doubt its an olds cam, and we have deduced its identical in all aspects except its radius..

anyone?? i know not every one is partyin!

 

Explain what you call ..."RADIUS"

WHAT do you mean when you use the term..." bigger than the 303"....?

do you have a dial caliper to actually MEASURE something....?

 

Dude... just pick up the phone and call Engle... why have 10 guys give you advice when you can have all your questions answered correctly by the guys who ground the cam.

 

ok.. obviously this thread is geared to those who know OLDSMOBILES... a 303 is the first size olds OHV V8.. those that came after that were already mentioned in the beginning of the thread are the "bigger".. 324, 371.. in respects to the cam and the blocks that it fits... and why would i call engle when they know JUST ENGLE CAMS and a bit more when i can post here and get the advice of some guys that have been doing olds' for a longer than i have been alive? and no i dont have all the specialty tools to do all the special measuring, if i was that into machining and mechanics do you think i would be on here asking questions? no. come on.. think before you post, and read the whole thread before you post.. the question is not really about the cam.. its about machining the block, and its kind of something to be answered by those who BUILD EARLY OLDS'...

 

ooohhhh, after you get some rest and settle down some you might want to check your attitude. Not all of the folks on the board advertise who they are in their sig line and you would be amazed at who lurks...

You admit to having little or no equipment but don't feel it necessary to explain how you 'measure' something...

Yeah, why call Engle ? They have only been the business since your parents were in grammer school...

Do you have any idea who Ron in the SHOP is?

If you and your machinist have already decided that opening the cam bores will solve the problem then why continue?


.

 

....I know enough to know that you have the wrong dimension bearing camshaft.


post #30 says,,,,

...the gear at the end of the cam is a tad bigger than the 303"...




......


in post #33 you state,

..."identical in all aspects except its radius"...


?is what you call the "radius" actually the LOBE itself...?

........OR WHAT....???


replacing the cam with one that has proper bearing dimensions is at least 200 dollars cheaper than having the block's "cam- tunnel" altered for the cam that was originally designed for a large bearing olds block....

 

by radius i mean radius.. as in circumfrence of the cam..

as i stated.. this cam is what i have.. i am dead set on using an original engle.. and until one some how magically appears that is for 303/324 small journal, i am trying to figure out how to make what i have work as it is important to me to use original speed equipment in n on this engine. not all of us have the time, luck, or connections to find rare parts like that in like new condition. i got lucky and picked it up cheap with all its lifters..

 

not meaning to snap at anyone. just frusterated, in my head what im saying makes sense to me but no one else is seeming to understand.

like i have stated.. don wow is an olds god.. and i believe if he says it will work.. there is a very good chance it will.. if not i got the block for free and its just a 303. couldnt the cam-tunnel be sleaved back down if the procedure is infact unfruitful?

 

..... .FACE reality...!!!!


no matter if the cam was free,

....it is the wrong one for the block that you have.

 

the process of making the cam tunnel bore in the block LARGER to "fit" the larger journal camshaft bearings is a lot more difficult that I think that you understand.

the machine that I USE is called a "tobin-arp" special boring bar that is held / positioned from above with long/stiff arms that go down inside...

any other mannor is just not accurate and the bearings will not all be in alignment.

the machine is not at "just any" ...."corner automotive machine shop".
...and lets just say that "cost" is somewhere between 300 and 500 to do it ...




...just get the right journal diameter cam....!!!

 

sometimes the best way to FIX a problem is with a GIANT EFFIN HAMMER..














to the HEAD...!!!

 

well i wasn't meaning to be rude and never said anything rude, and even appologized for being snappy.. and even have stated i'm not a mechanic.

i'm learning.

i don't believe the rude comments are warranted.

we cant all be perfect like some like to think they are... if people dont ask questions they never learn, and if people never tried to make shit work that shouldn't we wouldnt have hot rods. right?

 

as is with most on this board,..

...we are all trying to help those that do not know .

................................................_______

one of the best invenstments for you would be to buy a simple and relatively cheap six inch dial caliper.
actually a ten inch or twelve inch dial caliper is best, because you can measure various things such as pushrod lengths ( they are over 6 inches) and bolt pattern widths ETC...
six incher dial calipers are as cheap as 28 dolars.
12 inchers are at least 100

used units / deals can be found at pawnshops all the time.


this simple measure instrument/ tool should be just as important as a half inch wrench in your toolbox.

 

You just can't help some people. This is the most bass-ackward way to build an engine I have heard of... FIRST pick the cam you want and then make the block fit. Give it up, genius. At least this thread dredged up some good info, but enough is enough.

 

no you know what the fucked up thing is.. some people say it would work, some say it will not.. so im confused on who is right.. but im the asshole right? you have to bash me because im getting conflicting info and dont know what to believe..

and if Olds motors are so easy for you to find then by all means have at em.. i on the other hand dont see them falling out of the sky and into my lap let alone turning up when i hunt for them. so bash me all you want, just abunch of people acting like they're better than someone else because they know everything already apparently and never was confused by conflicting advice..

 

I've been watching this thread for a while now just waiting to see the outcome, but all in all I have to agree with Ron, and we do have a few Tobin-Arp machines in our shop for align boring and for boring pin bushings, it's best to get the right parts for your application. If you try to make the parts that you have work where they weren't ment to work you spend a lot of money and in most cases end up with junk. It's not to say that custom parts can't be made, that's what Hotrodding is all about, but if you can get the right cam for your engine do it. You might even do some trading for the right one. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Oh, radius..and circumfrence are two differant things, radius is the messurement from the center out, circumfrence is the messure around the outside and diamiter is the messure all the way across. Dial calipers are cheep to obtain.

 

O.K.

where is the original camshaft that was in the 303 block...????

it could be rebuilt or reground to the desired specKs....

original replacements can be found....

_____________________


...speaking and asking questions all the while using "kinda-sort of" the correct terms and words goes a long way in being able to get your point accross...

...and then having someone understand what you are trying to say./

__________________

mctim,
as you know, the more common "tabletop type of tobin-arp" is to be used to re size or correct the center to center distance of a bushed small end /top ... of a many times rebuilt connecting rod...could also be called a "dual-bore"...

and as you know, this machine is a different machine than what is employed to make cam bearing tunnel alterations........it is about like the size of having two large household refrigerators laying on the floor.

just having the machine is only 1/10 of it...

it takes YEARS of experience to do the job RIGHT..

it aint got no "buttons to push" ....nuthin is "automatic".....

 

well.. if thats my only option.. having a cam grinder put that grind on a stock cam till i find a correct 56-58 large journal motor to slip the solid roller into and then put the rest of my speed parts on sounds reasonable i guess..

 

........so are you DONE NOW...????

 

Jim, I do know what you are talking about. The align bore machine we use is a floor model, not the type that bolts to the pan rails, the block mounts to a table that is part of the machine. We do bore cam bearings on engines like IHC D310/359 that all we can get are semi finished bearings.

You might agree that it also takes a good amount of time just to get use to your particular machine, same model in a different shop has different quirks.

 

I think I'm done! For today anyway.

 

definitely done being belittled and cut down.. so yea.. you can say im done.

 

we use mine to enlarge existing blocks in to larger cam bearings or to convert to the now popular roller / needle cam bearings...
as said, it is a 6 hour or more time to do the job..

29hotrod,
when you are INFORMED,

you can make better decisions.

_____________

...I am done now because I am EXHAUSTED....

but we are still here to HELP.

 

Lobe separation angle is part of the cam, it's just a tuning variable, and it doesn't make any difference what engine it's in.

Bank seperation has to do with what the center to center distance of the cam and the crank is. This puts the 2 banks at different indexing in relation to each other.

No.
Bank angle has 2 very different meanings.
Cylinder bank angle is part of the engine - no way to deal with it, but luckily the bank angle of any modern V8 is 45°.

I think you meant the tappet bank angle?
Tappet bank angle can be completely different, and also different left and right bank.
This isn't related to cam-to-crank distance, that's just a coincidence that some engines have both changed, but some don't (late Olds has either 39 or 45° tappet angle, 45° bank angle, same crank-to-cam center).
The low vs. raised deck Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler hemi engines have different tappet angles (none are 45°), same cam distances, same bank angles.
Tappet angle is changed, generally, to make better alignment between the rocker and the tappet to take some angle out of the pushrod, such as when the decks are raised and the rockers move up and away, or the cam is raised for rod clearance.

Just curious: why the Engle fixation? There's nothing in that cam that can't be read off a Cam Doctor and put on the right cam.

 

Im going to kick this horse some......
If it cost $500 to bore a large journal into the block( if it could take it) it would still be cheaper than buying a new roller cam for that motor. Last cam quote was $900 for a core to be made and then ground. Just saying.
And before its said its not worth it, its done every day to some motors with lots of benefits and some not so beneficial.
With that said if you could find the right cam that would be better.

 

Im probably a little spoiled,I usally have 3-4 roller cams that fit his early 49-55 block at all times
The later 56-58 ones a little harder to find but their out there
And I have new ones

Tony

 

Maybe you could help the kid out with a trade.