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Olds Cam questions...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 29hotrod55kustom, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    i just got a very very nice old engle solid roller cam and the roller lifters for my olds motor project, i'm thinking its for late 324, it looks slightly larger than the stock cam i pulled out of my 303. so i need to know 2 things...

    1) will it be fine to have the cam journal bored out to fit the new cam? or could the cam main parts be turned down to fit?

    2) can anyone identify the cam, as i said its an engle, on the end of the cam there is a big 238 then under it says Engle, then stamped awkwardly towards the bottom of the end is 104.

    if anyone can identify the specs of this cam for me it would be much appreciated!!!!

    here is a pic showing the size diff.
    [​IMG]

    here is a pic of the numbers on the end..
    [​IMG]
     
  2. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,878

    CGkidd
    Member

    From the pic it looks like a 56 324,57/58 371 or 59 anf later 371 or 394. If you look at the front of the cam if there is a 1/4" space between the bearing and flange the it is a 59 and later cam. I don't have a engle book so I can't tell for sure. If it is your best bet would be to find a 56 324 block to build. It wouldn't even be worth trying to machine your block to make it work. I f you have a 303 or early 324 cam with the small bearing journal you can get the cam reground by Clay Smith, Isky, Delta cams in wa there a couple of outfits that do cam grinding.
     
  3. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Engle cams are still in business. I just googled engle cams and got Info. They were good to give specks on my 50s Cad cam a couple years ago
     
  4. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    thanksguys.

    CGkid, can you tell me why i would bennefit from buying a new block rather than just spending 150 bucks and having the cam journal bored?? the cams are identical in length in every aspect, only difference is diameter.

    anyone else care to weigh in?
     

  5. brocluno
    Joined: Nov 1, 2009
    Posts: 165

    brocluno
    Member

    Why not have the cam journals turned down so they fit your block?
     
  6. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,712

    73RR
    Member

    Can't speak to the Olds questions but can say that the guys at Engle are top notch and have great product. Highly recommended.

    .
     
  7. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    the whole cam would have to be turned down, lobes and all, and i suppose its do-able... just as cheap to enlarge the cam journal in the block though, and i wouldnt be risking the cam i guess...

    all i guess im looking for is conformation that its do-able and not a problem. i dont see why it would be a big deal to bore the cam journal seeing as how the block is still basically identical to the early 324 and 303.. only difference being bore and cam journal size..
     
  8. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    Cam journal on the 303's to 55 324's is 1.8725----journal in 56 324 and 371's is 1.9980 . NO you can't just turn the cam journal down to fit because the lobes would not pass thru ....just fubared the cam. Bore the block to the 56 spects and use the cam as is,,,or get the correct cam for small journal block that you have.
     
  9. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    Forgot ---ENGLE cam part no 1704 grind 238 short duration comp ex timing 68-38 in timing 38-68 duration 286 lift .440 settings in.013 ex .015
    for use with 1.5 ratio rockers only 1964 price for kit cam rollers rocker arms inter outer springs alum retainers and pushrods= 360.00
     
  10. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    DON WOW pulls through again! so, the machine shop should be able to enlarge the surface the flange sits on aswell correct? does anything need to be done of the timing cover?


    so i can ONLY use 1.5:1 rocker arms???????? what would happen if 1.8's were used???
     
  11. holeshot
    Joined: Sep 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,519

    holeshot
    BANNED
    from Waxahachie

    hey HOTROD...theres no way that larger diameter cam will fit your engine. had machine turning would cost as much a new cam. it's a no brainer!..POP.
     
  12. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    holeshot, the problem is i have my heart set on using a real Engle.. and this is the only one i could turn up and i was lucky enough it was a roller with the roller lifters that came with it.. all in virtually new condition (very very very low miles).. if DON WOW says it can be done.. it can be done..

    now, since the new problem arises in the rocker arm department.. i'm talking to this guy who is gonna sell me a set of McGurks but he doesn't know what ratio they are, and i cant really tell, thought maybe you could tell what ratio they might be DON WOW..

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2009
  13. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    The deal on the kit is the springs were spect as to coil bind and open -closed pressure based on the 1.5 ratio. You can use 1.8 if you do a little math on new springs ---talk to a cam man about what stiffness is needed for the roller stick ---gonna be stout front cover non issue
     
  14. JoeGibbsRacing
    Joined: Nov 19, 2009
    Posts: 11

    JoeGibbsRacing
    Alliance Vendor

    This is solid advice. We deal with a lot of cam companies at our engine shop. I would contact Doug Engle at Engle cam to see about either getting a new cam, or finding somebody to bore your block to fit the cam you have. I saw Doug at the SEMA show two weeks ago, so give him a call. He'd be glad to help.
     
  15. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    awesome, thanks DON WOW, youre my hero man.

    do you have any idea on the rocker arms i posted a pic of, as to what ratio they look to be?
     
  16. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,074

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    It might be worth checking with Engle to see if the lobe seperation and The BANK seperation is the same for both engines.. If not, IT WON"T WORK without correcting by regrinding. The success of that will depend on how much excess material there is available on the lobes.

    "Been in the cam business over 50 years"
     
  17. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    what exactly is lobe seperation and bank seperation? like i said, the cam is identical to the 303 cam just larger in diameter..
     
  18. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

  19. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,074

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    Lobe seperation is the angle in degrees that the intake and exhaust lobes are seperated.
    Bank seperation has to do with what the center to center distance of the cam and the crank is. This puts the 2 banks at different indexing in relation to each other.
    2 cams from different engines can look identical to the naked eye but be off several degrees in lobe location and bank seperation.
     
  20. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    crazy. does anyone of the olds guru's know the answer? are they the same in respects to what pete1 is talking about???

    if no one knows i will call Engle tomorrow.
     
  21. Send the cam to Engle and have the whole cam reground to fit your engine...
     
  22. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    A little info---all early olds 49 to 64 have the same crank to cam center measurement ---all bank angles of the lifters are the same-- all the angle of the dangle is a non issue inside the block.

    I can't see if the rocker is a 1.5 or a 1.8--hell can't even see USSR from here --but you can locate the rocker in a stable fixture and lift the pushrod end .25 of an inch then measure how much the valve tip end moved ----- .37 of an inch = 1.5 ratio ----.45 of an inch =1.8 ratio easy huh
     
  23. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,504

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    My book ( 1964 ) shows #238 as a Nodular Roller SBC cam 265-327, High Displacement Competition
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  24. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    The part no for the sbc is 1004 ----olds 1704
     
  25. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,878

    CGkidd
    Member

    Only reason I suggested the 56 engine is to save the machine work on the block. If you could find a complete engine you would be ahead in ci as well as better breathing heads.
     
  26. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    awesome info guys.

    i was planning on boring the block out to the 324 bore anyways, so i guess thats why i dont care to much about having to pay an extra 150 to have the cam journal bored.. i hear ya CGKid, sorry if i came off snappy, i already have a set of #8 head to put on it, but am keeping my eyes open for #10's.

    late last night though, it occured to me, will my dizzy have the correct advance curve for the cam and all??? i have a Mallory Double-Life YC 250-C.. i guess the answer to this will be relative and in speculation, but atleast i will get an idea. if not who would be good to go to to have it corrected?
     
  27. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,712

    73RR
    Member

    Send a PM to gmc bubba for ignition work.


    .
     
  28. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    if it comes to that i def. will give him a try.. but does anyone know if it may or may not need to be modified to match the cam profile?
     
  29. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    up again for the evenin crowd..
     
  30. 29hotrod55kustom
    Joined: Dec 19, 2005
    Posts: 701

    29hotrod55kustom
    Member

    ok, new question, since i brought up the distributor.. since the gear at the end of the cam is a tad bigger than the 303, will this create a problem with the gear at the end of the dizzy???
     

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