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Technical OLD GUY PAINTING WITH THE NEW STUFF

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by COCONUTS, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 1,054

    COCONUTS

    I use to do a lot of painting working in a body shop part time while going to school, and got to the point of mastering the art of spraying lacquer with various thinners. But enamel I was never consistence with. Sometime it would come out smooth, high gloss, no runs, other times the car would just be a different color. I painted a lot of stock cars in enamel but save the street cars for lacquer. In another year I will have my shop finish and will start up again in an effort to complete the 1/2 dozen projects that I have stashed away. I pride myself on doing the work myself, start to finish. I would rather buy the tools or equipment required than spent the money on someone else's labor. So I guess my question is, what type of paint that is on the market today, would be the same as the lacquer paint use in the 60s and 70s. I have in mind using some sort of weld through primer or high fill primer and going over it with a color coat, cut and buff to obtain a smooth, high gloss finish. Thanks for any advice. Another item is the cost of paint these days, I use to paying $35.00 a gallon for DuPont or R&M acrylic lacquer (red other colors cost less), I guess those days are gone.
     
  2. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,727

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    If you prefer it use lacquer today. It is available. Otherwise there is nothing like it. Processes for use of modern products are similar to lacquer but that's where it ends.
    Today's undercoats are fantastic.
    Sticker shock is real.
     
    dana barlow and tb33anda3rd like this.
  3. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,537

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I remember thinking the way your expressing 40 years ago or so but time moves on. The new bace coat clear coats are as easy as your going to find. The bace coats will spray similar to lacquer and the clear coat similar to enamel and the single stage paints. The clear and single stage will color sand and buff like lacquer after curing.
    The one thing about clear cote is they don't all spray out the same so try different clears until you find one that works for you another thing is paint guns make a huge difference in how paint sprays out. Paint guns, good ones have gotten very expensive, so if you can try different paint guns before you drop the bucks that's a plus.
    I would highly recommend taking a certification class or something to get up to speed on the new materials or you will be fighting what you think you know and the way it is because ALL the materials are different from bare metal to buffing the paint.
    Good luck
     
    XXL__, tb33anda3rd and belair like this.
  4. big john d
    Joined: Nov 24, 2011
    Posts: 259

    big john d
    Member
    from ma

    always ask for the mix sheet when you buy paint it will tell you the correct mix and pressure and spray technique
     
    texasred likes this.

  5. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Do you mean Acrylic Enamel? I also had issues with it like you mentioned. Then one day I tried single stage Urethane and that stuff works great for me.

    Also, a friend gave me some offshore very cheapie spraygun that he won as a door prize, still in it's cheapie bubble pack. I took it thinking I could at least use it for non auto stuff, but one day tried it on a car with single stage urethane, and this thing worked awesome. I don't do the ''cut & buff", as if you get a great finish, why bother.

    I suggest you grab a quart of non-metallic single stage Urethane and paint some larger spare body panels as a test. I'd bet you will have the same results as I did. It is super nice stuff to work with IMO, and easy to learn how to lay it down with no runs or dry spots.
     
  6. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 1,054

    COCONUTS

    I did both, enamel and acrylic enamel. it seem like the harder I tried to more I was dissatisfied I was with the outcome. We had a old drunk at the shop that could out paint me. He even fell down on a hood of a car that he was painting, one time, but could he paint. The shop would save all the extra paint and I would practice spraying, most was acrylic lacquer maybe that is why I got better at it. Thanks to all the sound advise.
     
  7. oldcootnco
    Joined: Jun 10, 2010
    Posts: 67

    oldcootnco
    Member

    The greatest improvements are the undercoats. I still have a old Devilbis and Binks siphon feed but prefer a gravity feed. I modified a HF gun to spray primer.
    The sticker shock is very real. The suppliers in my area offer the name brands, but they might have a product that is the name brand economy version.
    I do agree that a certification class would help a lot, especially with techniques and spray guns.
     
  8. whiteknuckle
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 64

    whiteknuckle
    Member
    from Dryden, NY

    The guy who runs the shop where I buy all my paint products is an awesome resource. Ask lots of questions from the people who sell it and attend the seminars put on by the manufacturers and put more weight to his opinions than a lot of what you will be told on the internet.
     
  9. whiteknuckle
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 64

    whiteknuckle
    Member
    from Dryden, NY

    ...and you do get what you pay for. I have tried using the Omni line (cheaper PPG product) but find that it takes more product to get similar results to the better lines of PPG product.
     
  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,803

    belair
    Member

    I have shot (in my driveway and in a homemade outdoor driveway paint booth (clear plastic and duct tape) single stage enamel and BC/clear coat, respectively. I have used a
    Harbor Freight gun a lot of times, and an Eastwood $90.00 (if I recall correctly) for the BC/CC. Paint was usually a NAPA kit of enamel. BC/CC was bought from a paint vendor at a swap meet. None of the paint ever disappointed me. F&J is correct in all respects as far as my experiences go. Good advice from the others as well. Pics are of the BC/CC/paint booth/90 dollar gun/cut and buff.
     

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    catdad49 and hotrodharry2 like this.
  11. Take some time to get educated on the health hazards and safety/handling of the new stuff. Buy good protective gear and use it.


    Walt
    Outsiders CC
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC likes this.
  12. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 2,810

    31Apickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’ll second that, modern urethane scare easy to work with but also health hazards.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  13. bigdog
    Joined: Oct 30, 2002
    Posts: 693

    bigdog
    Member

    I'm old enough that I shot a lot of lacquer. For me base/clear is pretty much as easy as lacquer with a lot less color sanding and buffing.
     
    belair likes this.
  14. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 728

    patterg2003

  15. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 881

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

  16. Mahty
    Joined: Nov 20, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Mahty

    I started out with lacquer, and moved on to enamel and BC/CC. After awhile you can paint any of them with practice. IMO, a good lacquer paint job that’s buffed out looks better than the new paints. But the durability isn’t as good. The health hazards are scary with the new stuff, so good PPE is a must.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,878

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    In the early 80s I used to paint Navy attack training planes with Imron and haven't painted since, how does modern single stage urethane compare to that ?
     
  18. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,991

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    I used to do lacquer back in the day, and moved on as paint technology progressed. If you can shoot lacquer, then you can shoot basecoat. Very similar in paint technique. Now the modern urethane clears shoot more like enamel, but set up much faster. I think you could modify your lacquer spray technique to be able to shoot the clear. It's not so easy, but then again, you could always sand and buff if it gives you too much trouble. Or sand and "flow coat" a day after shooting the clear.
     
  19. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,054

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I just bought urethane for my heap after going back and forth over lacquer. One of the more important considerations was lacquer always needing sand and polish (at least when I shoot it). I'm not planning on a show finish, and I'm hopefully I can get the urethane to flow well enough that it won't need it, or at least only the runs. :oops:
     
  20. The one thing to be aware of with urethane over lacquer if you are not painting in a controlled environment (like a booth) is it is going to be much more prone to getting stuff in it as it does not dry nearly a fast as lacquer. You need an VERY clean environment to spray in comparison to lacquer.
     

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