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Old Ford 302 vs newer one.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tommyd, May 21, 2012.

  1. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Get in here fellow Blue Oval guys. The engine I am using is a 91 F.I. I'm switching the carb,intake,pan and timing cover from my 70's 302 to the new one. Looks like the cam sprocket on the 91 is thicker and has no fuel pump ecentric. Any reason that I can't use an early 302 chain and gears and change out the cam dowel pin? I mean as long as it doesn't rub the back of the timing cover. Ive worked on 302's up through the early 80's but not a F.I. one and I figure someone on here has done this swap. Thanks.
     
  2. mcnally351
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 447

    mcnally351
    Member
    from boston

    I believe you can use any timing chain for a Windsor motor, but a double roller is pretty cheap and might be worth replacing while your there, imo. Are you running the stock "ho" roller cam? Don't forget to block off the egr ports in the back of the e7 heads, if you didn't already. I did the same conversion on a 90 ho motor, I love the roller motor! Good luck with it
     
  3. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,239

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I think the later models come with a double roller timing chain set so all you need is the fuel pump eccentric and fuel pump from a 87 351 since it came with a carb and you should be good to go.
     
  4. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Thanks guys. I was thinking that too but what the heck,never too proud to ask somebone else. I did forget about the EGR passages. Need to do that while I'm thinking about it. The H.O. motors have some nice parts from the factory for sure.TRW's and that double roller chain and a decent cam. I'm not rebuilding it this time around. Just all new gaskets and go. Would like to grind the bosses out of the exhaust ports but I dont want to yank the heads. Maybe over the winter I'll do it up right.
     

  5. mcnally351
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 447

    mcnally351
    Member
    from boston

    Is going in that farlane? If you yank the heads, a cheap swap is the gt40p heads from an explorer, they flow a little better.
     
  6. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Yep, It's going in my avatar. The 302 thats in it now has been in there since 94. It's got about 2500 drag strip passes and a bunch of street miles now so it's really tired. It's got a big lumpy cam,a loose converter and 3" exhaust. All of that has got to go! I want to be able to drive it more and not have it beat me to death. I figure this new engine with my stuff on it and the AOD and 4:11's it might still run 13's and I will enjoy it more.
     
  7. Cerberus
    Joined: May 24, 2010
    Posts: 1,392

    Cerberus
    Member

    Don't forget H.O.'s have a different firing order. Here's one I converted from EFI, serpentine, DuraSpark to Pertronix. The ps pulley created a big deal for me. The AOD went smooth. Did have to cut off the AOD's production ears to get it to fit the tunnel. May the force be with you.
     

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  8. mcnally351
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 447

    mcnally351
    Member
    from boston

    That's pretty cool, it will feel nice to have a tight motor in there, and one you don't need to adjust rockers!
     
  9. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    I'm going to hook the trans up and bolt my headers on on the floor to check clearences and compare the bell housing size also. Might as well wack the ears off then too. No P/S or A/C and I picked up a conversion balancer so I can use my 3 bolt pulleys. Its supposed to have the correct weight for this new engine. It's kind of cool because it looks like an old Hi Po balancer. Thanks for the bell cutting tip.
     
  10. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    Tommyd;you may have an issue with your old headers and the AOD,I did a swap a couple of years ago and had to reroute the drivers side tubes[long tube headers] to clear the trans,that sucker is HUGE!!!! If you change cams,most use the early firing order,I have a roller 302 from an 87 Cougar in my 65 Wagon and used a comp cams roller cam that uses the stock Ford rollers and uses the early firing order.I used a MSD distributor and MSD 6 box for ignition.I used the 87 front cover and a standard rotation water pump and single pulley system.I am also running a 4-speed so had to get all the right parts for the later engine. ROY.
     
  11. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,413

    tjm73
    Member

    Ford Racing sells a mechanical fuel pump eccentric. Two actually.

    M-6287-B302 is the one you most likely will need. The other is M-6287-C302. Both list at $49.00 so you should be able to get it a little cheaper if you hunt around for it.

    Summit sells both for $39.95.
     
  12. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Electric fuel pump ?

    4TTRUK
     
  13. I'm running a 87 roller converted old school. Don't forget the distributor gear needs to be steel if you have a roller.
     

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  14. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Thanks for all the info. I'm going to hit it hard this week.
     
  15. Wait a minute. I thought roller's needed a brass gear? I'm converting a '90 HO over to old school and am replacing the distributor with Petronics type. Everyone tells me to swap the gear to brass. HELP!
     
  16. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    ^^ What he said! I'm pretty sure all billet rollers need a bronze gear, I know, about 38 years ago I learned the hard way.I put an eccentric on a later motor I used the early longer dowel pin, but if I remember correctly it was a little to long like the cam wasn't drilled deep enough,I pressed the pin in and shortened with a wizz wheel .
     
  17. NO, Do not run a Brass or bronze gear on the street, They are a sacrificial part and you are lucky to get 3000 mils out of them, plus you are circulating brass through the motor. ONLY True Steel Billet rollers need a brass gear, and that is NOT what is in the Ford Roller motors (or GM for that matter). Billet Rollers are high end race cams only. The basic roller cams from Ford or the aftermarket are not Billet Steel. What you need is a Melonized gear for using on these cams, like what we put on all the PerTronix distributors, or the original gear that came on the stock dist.
    Paul, our (PerTronix) dist gears that come on our distributors are compatible with street roller cams. They have been tested by Comp Cams on the SpinTron machine for durability and they approve them for use on their roller cams
     
  18. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    Why did you use my comment? I clearly said all billet cams, I don't know what cam the poster might be running ,and if he stayed with the stock ford roller and used a bronze gear what would be the harm.Todays bronze gears are a lot tougher than they were in the old days.
     
  19. Because a lot of people don't know the difference between a standard Roller Cam and a Steel Billet, and you had agreed with the post above you saying to use Brass with rollers, so I was hoping to help clarify it for those who don't understand the difference. Bronze gears are a bit better than Brass, but they still don't live very long on the street, so why take the chance of wearing one out when you don't need it?
     
  20. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    Just checking, because I was trying to make it clear with billet cams, but I see where agreeing might have given the impression. I was just trying to start the thought process, I have run Bronze gears in a lot of my roller cammed street motors and never had an issue,but I also agree with using the factory gear,I think they even interchange with distributors.
     
  21. I did this last year, works great.

    Some things to check:
    -You will need a new timming cover if you want to run a mechanical fuel pump
    -Double check to make sure the fuel pump eccentric does not rub on the timming cover, some eccentric's are wider then others.
    -As above, don't run the brass gear on the dizzy


    Now have fun!
     
  22. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    I forgot about the eccentric rubbing, it's been a while since I did it.I turned down the eccentric that I had put on the motor.
     
  23. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,413

    tjm73
    Member

    I'd bet Ford eccentric doesn't rub.
     
  24. mustang6147
    Joined: Feb 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,847

    mustang6147
    Member
    from Kent, Ohio

    FI cam profiles are different then Natural aspiration.... Consider switching the cam.....
     
  25. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    Mine was off a running ford 302 that was getting rebuilt, that I put on this motor.I put a new one on the motor Irebuilt and had no clearance problem.I bought the timing cover off ebay, but it looked untouched. Only time I did it so I don't really know, I'm a Chevy guy who plays with Fords once in a while,but if there is a wider and narrower eccentric it might explain it.
     
  26. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,636

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    All good info,plugged the heads today,I will put the F.I. dist gear on the dist that I will be using,I'm using the timing cover and water pump from the old engine, will double check for clearence on the ecentric,and go with the 351 firing order. That rear main seal looks like its gonna be fun to replace too. Maybe I have a coffee can or something I can use as a seal driver.:D Also might look into a set of tri-y's for header clearance too. NOT gonna cut up my two year old coated Super Comps!
     
  27. dcwest32
    Joined: Jul 11, 2009
    Posts: 57

    dcwest32
    Member

    TOMMYD I'am using tri y 's on a 302 with AOD and they take clearance work on pass side because the AOD is the big bell housing , you can grind some off the trans and modify numbers 3 and 4 to clear the edge of the trans, the starter should be late model also because it is smaller. I shortened the collectors about 6 inches to help clear the side of trans...ran 2and half exhaust with flowmaster for a great ford sound..
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  28. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,413

    tjm73
    Member

    Car Craft made 405 hp at the crank with the OE 5.0 HO cam with AFR heads, a stealth intake, headers and a 650 carb. Made 380 ft-lbs too. All on a true 302.

    The roller fuel injection cam is quite good with carbs.
     
  29. CheatersPete
    Joined: Sep 25, 2002
    Posts: 1,281

    CheatersPete
    Member

    Hello

    I just found a 302/AOD combo from a F150 2wd from 1988, do you think it's a HO?
     
  30. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,146

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    You can use a HEDMAN 88400 header and it will require no alteration and will work with an AOD.
     

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