Recently I was traveling to my son's to get some stripes done on my chopped shoebox and I noticed at a local riceburner (you know the one in the headlines for recalls) dealership, a stack of new frames, still banded together from shipment. So I sought out a buddy whose son works there and asked what was up. Seems these are replacement frames for pickups they have sold in last two decades. Now how many of you have seen '49-56 Chevy, Ford and other make pickups drug out from behind a barn or out of weed filled lot, hosed off, tuned up and driven? And in reality, look at Model A Fords. How many of those frames are still being found, z'ed, and used? Yet a frame only 20 years old is rotten and has to be replaced? My wife has a small AWD car. It is a 2003. Recently at 106K miles, I noticed some tire wear issues so took it to the dealer to have it aligned. when they went to align the rear wheels, they told me the adjustment bolts were rusted fast and had to be cut out and replaced, costing me bucks. I told the Service Manager that I could show him Model T fords where the spring bolts were still useable and removeable. In fact I asked him why the manufacturer had not rifle drilled the bolts and provided zerk fittings on the ends to lube them. Of course I got that "what an old fool" look and no answer. We just don't build cars like we used to do. I am glad I was a kid who graduated from high school in 1960 and have enjoyed driving Detroit iron at its finest. Here's a picture of my wife and I in 1966, right before we eloped, with my '65 425hp big block Corvette, factory 4:56 gears. Edlebrock cross ram with two holley spreadbores under a special hood bubble. As Chris Matthews once said, "makes my leg tingle" just to remember those days.
How many more of those 49-56 cars break in half when you try to pull them out of the mud, because they rotted out underneath? I've seen some later model stuff with pretty bad rot already, you can only recycle that metal so many times and make it so thin and light before it only lasts 1/4 as long.
The steel was better for sure...but IF you used a Model A as a daily year-round here in our climate, you wouldn't get 20 years. Salt and chemicals need to be isolated from the steel by special coatings and dips. The modern cars have it and usually last 15 years here, while still looking good. An A or the like has nothing to fight with and would rust internally like a piece of bare metal. I remember buying late 60's parts cars and seeing others in the mid 70's that were rusted to the point of physical collapse at just 7 or 8 years old! REALLY. Coming from the Autobody industry myself...as nice as it is to glorify our old rides...the fact is that the modern stuff IS usually better from a rust standpoint. From other standpoints...not so much. LoL Import pickups have always had rust issues with the frames. They're boxed and hold the salt, sand and dampness to let it do its nasty work. They ALL should have been recalled. PERIOD. Now the domestics have followed the import lead with the exact same result. I'll never understand the thought process...unless its to give good torsional resistance and a better ride while the truck is new and then give a limited lifespan once the truck reaches a certain age so you HAVE to go buy a new one.... Naaaa...whats the chances of that???
you sir, are correct. and thank you for sharing the photo too - you and the mrs are obviously way cool!
I love almost any old car/truck but the reality is that QUALITY wise, todays cars/trucks are lightyears ahead of the old stuff. In the 50's and 60's, a $2000-$3000 car often got traded before it was 4-5 years old and could be bought for $500. A buddy of mine bought a '49 chev 1ton from the original owner and it came with all the original paper work. The warrenty was, IIRC, 4 months 4500 miles. Watch Barrett Jackson some time. Cars go through with 35000 original miles or so and the car is all original with the exception of the engine being rebuilt. Back in the day, 100,000 miles was considered Phenomonal. Today, if we get less than 200,000 trouble free miles, we have a hissy fit. We get better life from a set of spark plugs today that they got from the average ENGINE back then. Old cars are great and I love 'em and will take one over a new car any day but not because I have any illusions that the old ones are higher quality, they just aren't. I drive 'em because I like 'em.
Older anything is better. My buddy has been restoring older riding mowers lately and making a killing on them because people are tired of their shitty new mowers crapping out after 3 seasons.
"what an old fool" Doubt that...love the photo of you and the wifey, reminds me of my folks. Have a great 4th.
I think some of those frame replacements are for frames that were found, after the fact, not to have passed all of the ISO inspections. There may be a rivet missing, or simply installed from the wrong direction, or a non-compliant weld, or even just a cosmetic issue, but I think they're required to replace the whole frame. The plant that makes frames for some of those pickups is here in east TX.
I have to agree fully with you on this fact, I may be a youngster as far as you all are concerned, but this point is true that newer cars and trucks rust out quick, this is especially noticeable on cape cod where when these cars come into shop these jobs eat up time and money quickly especially when your on "flat rate pay". When i bought my 59 & 68 f150s the frames where like rocks especially considering that these where both north east trucks there whole lives and even my 71 dodge demon is rock solid considering its a original new york car. ???what ever happened to that Hard core tar under coting that would save a framethat was submerged in salt water??? hu?
you have to remember that today its made cheap and fast! profit, profit, profit, is the name of the game! quantity not quality! back then it was made to last! labor was cheap, and work quality was good!
I grew up in Oklahoma. I went to college in Nebraska. Went to school with students mainly from midwest, NE IA WI MN, etc. What struck me about the cars of those other students is they were 2-5 years old and rusted out. This was in the 70s. Large American iron, rusted. I think rust issues have more to do with salted roads than cheap materials. Seldom see rusty cars here in central Arkansas unless they've come from the rust belt. Oh, our OT cars include '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 235,000 miles on original engine and trans, never rebuilt; '99 Acura, 233,000 miles on original engine and trans, never rebuilt; '97 Camry, 182,000 miles on original engine and trans, never rebuilt. On other hand, old cars (like my Nomad and '47 Ford) need lots of maintenance just to keep them on the road if they're driven often, as mine are. I love old cars and everything about them, but cars now go much farther with a lot less repairs than the old stuff.
Rust?! HUH?! Never understood living where a car can melt! I thought everybody drove a sixty year old car as daily transport... Sir you are preaching to the choir. The newest car in our little fleet is my girlfriends twenty year old Mercedes SL... and I break out into hives every time I have to fix the damn thing! AND- I might add - I work on the thing a hell of a lot more than I do my '48 Plymouth!!!
It is what it is. Manufacturers today don't make cars to last forever. They're not building cars to last until the apocalypse these days. The cars they build (usually) meet the limited lifespan in which they are designed for. You can blame whoever you'd like, but the fact is the consumer is what has made cars the way they are today. Manufacturers produce what consumers will buy, end of story. People's lifestyles of having to constantly buy a newer car has resulted in these short-life vehicles. If car manufacturers wanted to build a car to last a long time, they could surely do it better today than they could back in the 50's or 60's. Well, that is if the government would allow it... I think you got the "what an old fool" look because you're going by yesteryear's standards. The philosophy of car manufacturing today is completely different, and I'm sure the dealership guy just didn't get you. It's not the same game.
Salt on the roads? We only put salt on our chips here! Besides new cars being uglier than a elephant's arse, the manufacturers have got the built-in obsolecence bit perfected. How many 15 year old cars get scrapped because one of their electronic control boxes (unrepairable of course) craps itself? Or an alloy head decides to make like a piece of swiss cheese and only new (very expensive) heads are available? And (down here at least) when the sun gets to all those little plastic bits and they go brittle and snap! Gimme old stuff anyday!
from a buddy of mine in Boston who emailed me today, a confirmation of my hypothesis: " John,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o> <o> </o> I recently spent some time window-shopping for a new car (my Toyota Celica has 270,000 miles on it, although absolutely trouble free). I did notice that every <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Toyota</st1lace></st1:City> dealer had a stack of pick-up truck frames (what else would have frames?) setting outside. I finally asked a salesman “what’s going on here?”, and he explained the rust problem. Actually, I believe they were quite a bit newer than you’ve postulated, I think within this decade. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Toyota</st1lace></st1:City> offered owners a generous “buy-back” at something like 25% above book value, or free replacement. The salesman said they could swap the frames in less than a day! (Probably a result of lots of practice.)"<o></o> <o> </o>
The reality is the new cars are much more finely built, fit and finish are amazing and they will go 3 times as many miles as your old car with much less maintenance. They outperfom, outrun and outhandle old cars. Nonetheless I prefer older cars as well. It's a nostalgia thing with me. Simply put they are the cars I grew up with.
My old Ford flathead never rusted out because the damn thing leaked so much oil the frame was well preserved........... I thing this "old" and "new" thing about cars depends on your age and the cars of the day. If, like me, you drove 6 volt cars which wouldn't start in winter, with poor brakes, that handled like a rowboat, with a somtimes AM radio and sometimes semi warm heater, poor lighting and all of the rest you might enjoy driving todays cars......Just sayin..
This seems like the appropriate thread to post this. Don't get me wrong. I'm an old hot rodder from way back and love my vintage rides. But, I'm also a realist.
???what ever happened to that Hard core tar under coting that would save a framethat was submerged in salt water??? hu?[/QUOTE] At some point someone did that to may 48-and it Saved the car-95 percent rust free -
Shhhhhhhhhh. Best kept secrets, ya' know............ I hear tell a lot of people go to great lengths removing it when they "build" an old car. ?????
Uh huh. I know you're being nostalgic, but 0just to keep it real for the kids, cars used to be fairly awful. They were never built to last. 100k miles was a dream most never got to or were junk by that time. Heaters and a/c and defrosters all were ineffective. Build quality was terrible, warranties were short, and maintenance was constant. Can you imagine owning a new car that needed 16+ suspension points greased every 1,000 miles, as well as points and brakes adjusted constantly? How much oil leaked from a car then vs now? Cars are amazing these days. Certainly not as much personality, but amazing machines.
Old cars don't even compare. I just sold my 2008 Jeep Liberty with 106k miles, and not a SINGLE repair ever done on it, save for some new tires, a replaced windshield and fluid changes. Before that? 99k on a 2006 Dodge Magnum. Same deal. 99k miles with NO issues. Before that? 2004 Ford Taurus. Again, NO major repairs. Maintenance only. Cars these days are built to go well beyond 100k with no real issues, no real maintenance. Can't say that for the old stuff. Lets see you put 100k on a Flathead without any issues, no repairs. Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE old cars. That's what I live and breathe, and it's why I'm on this site. But to compare reliability to todays cars? forget it.
Remember the good old days in the 70's-80's where a car would barely last 100K and 5 years. Rust would start about a week after you bought it. And up until then it was a miracle if you knew anybody who could get a 100K out of a car. We like to remember just the good things and forget the bad, just human nature. I like the good old cars/trucks and I like some of the new ones too for different reasons.
Yeah, I remember having to get a valve job at 50,000 miles. I remember when I'd drive the freeway, there would be a car pulled over to the side of the road every 10 miles or so with the hood up waiting for a tow truck. That was just common in the 50's and even the 60's. I like my '34 with 1960's technology, just as it should be. But what a mess for the non-car people to have to deal with the technology of the "good old days".
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