Projects Old 1930 Channeled model A hot rod roadster gets a new lease on life.

Can I say anthing that people won't bash me for?
You seem confused with absolutely no direction

As far as what it once was, being that you wanted to know: The signs are there if you look at what remains:
-the height of the axle notch in the rear wheel wells dictates a typical height 50s channeled car, It's not extreme like some were. The rear sills show the old frame kick height
-the FOUR cycle fenders hint real hard on the "look" of a very typical channeled roadster, and they could show the tire sizes it once ran
-like you said, pedals/masters hint to which part of the 50s...late 50s not early
-the bent in, spring-ahead also gives a hint on the overall style, very typical in that era

you must find a direction or end up with nothing special, changing forever, what it was in the builders head.(you said you wished you knew what it looked like)

I look at this picture and want to scream... LOL. It is already so incredibly far from the original, and looks to be Y2K interpretation of lord knows what. The frame height is over a foot too tall, and those tires/F-to-R difference were never on that original build. EDIT: I bet that car had 15s with full wheel covers. I also think it was built around 60-62

The hamb has always had me scracthing my head.. A guy like Titus or Bleed finds an awesome old genuine channeled survivor and the hamb crowd goes nuts with likes and envy....but nobody seems to want to build a car like those...I don't get it. Everyone seems to love it, but not enough to want one?

I am close to 65, and in the last 5 years, I am getting far more obsessed with genuine 50s builds. I love the quirks, the sometimes bizarre chassis designs underneath, the cycle fenders, the odd placement of radiators, lights, spring ahead..etc etc

To me, the 50s was the epic pinnacle decade for rods with so many styles and features.

You can't make the spring over work without having the center mount hit the underside of decklid, going by where the axle once was, (if you want the original look of that car). And you can't get that look with spring behind without a Z or step frame. Look at the rear subrails, the blueprint is still there

 

I hear ya. Some things to consider. 1 those aren't the final wheels and tires. They are actually for my truck. But I had them and I needed some wheels. So there you are. I 100% intend to run a more equal tire size all around.

And yeah I totally get the weird quirks thing. I want to try and keep the flavor of this thing whole correcting some of its past sins.

As far as the rear spring and step. Are you saying regardless of spring over or behind, I need to step it? I just want to attempt to get some more trunk room by running a flatter crossmember. In my mind moving the spring off the top of the axle to behind the axle lowers the actual height of the spring compared to the centerline of the axle to roughly the same as if I stepped the rear. Does that make sense?

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I would not use an A spring. If you are trying to use a "flatter crossmember" for spring-behind type, you might be able to get it back to it's original ride height, by using the correct type of spring shackle hangers and a low arc spring, not A type.

Let's just use an example of how a "fixed" crossmember height, can be worked with as is, by using a 35/36 rear trailing arms....those you can lower the car more by using a different mounting plate on each axle tube. Doing those plates longer, changes the height of the spring shackle location, while doing no change to the spring arc or changing the crossmember.

So, I'm not saying to use those 35/6 arms, I'm just making a point on there are many ways to mess with ride height....Spring Arc, Crossmember height, shackle height, etc

I would be going by the body sill mods in your car, and also going by the notch for the axle in the wheel well.

One thing I've noticed for a long time; the cars from this era ran a somewhat level chassis, versus a rake. Channeled cars sat level for the most part, but some angled the channel to give a raked look. All parts of the old look if that's what your goal is

 

If I'm on the right thoughts you had:

If you mean you want to try to use a flat frame, like just stretching the Model A frame a foot or two, to get a rear mounted spring crossmember...that can't work with the channel.

Look at a side pic of your bare body. Imagine a wood 8 foot long 2x3 simulating the entire extended frame. With your channeling , that 2x3 will now cover the axle notch in the wheel well. There won't be room for a rear axle, and no room for travel.

There has to be a kick-up or a Z to leave room for axle tubes. If you don't, then the car needs to sit way, way too high, so the axle can travel

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This rod tells you all you wants to know! If those arms was used, it tells you what rear suspension you should go with! So I don't understand the question or No Hopla

Have a look at these pictures




Print these pictures out and it's BELCOM time! Big time.

Get a cold BEer, a Lawn Chair and some Old Music, put the pictures down in front of you.
Sit in silence, drink your beer slowly, glance at the pictures, imagine it's late 50s listen to the music and most importantly let the car tell you what you need to do!!!
Don't tell the car what you think you wants!!

If there is anymore questions after that, they better be more like, "where du I find a spring behind axle"? "How do I flip the bells to keep the wheelbase in check"?
Keep at it, lad.

 

The big guns are out to play today!

 

that's a good selection of styles. Some guys that weren't low enough with their choice of chassis pieces, ran a deeper channel.

Some of the bodies are ground hugging like the new sports car craze, and some were earlier and not as low.


and like was said by volvobrynk and also me, the car gives hints of how it was...sat:
Look at Austinrods turquoise A in the last pic. You can just imagine how high the notch is in the wheel well compared to the one that Hitchhiker found.

 

I know some of these are 32's but these are some of the pictures I have been looking at. I gotta run, but I'll be back to discuss the post above in a bit...thanks guys.



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another good selection to discuss frame heights and the channel that they selected for that particular frame setup.

That gold 32, spring-over front I believe, but look how "un-low" the front horns are.....but the channel makes everything look lower.

But with the underside of the front half of the 32 rails, this mix of pieces with a Model A frame won't look the same....so you need to compensate in the planning

Now look at that smallest B/W pic on right side of page; Look how high those frame tips are.

This is why you see so many degrees of channel depth, to get your overall desired look to work with what you had for frame style and front end parts...like dropped/or undropped axle, spring above or spring on top.


I've been thinking about the car telling the height of what it once was: Let's say you look at the rear fenders to get an idea of tire height/radius?. Now look at the wheel well notches to see if the axle hit them a lot or never, or a slight hit. Then can we guess a never hit was 4" clearance? If so, now we use the figure of the old channeling sills. With all that info, you get frame height off the ground, and how close the body was to the ground.

But it once had a 32 frame, and using an A frame, now make the needed changes to get to that old guesstimated height.

fun stuff to do brain exercise on, even if you decide on a different height later in planning.

.

 

I'm 99% sure it was actually built on a A frame.

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Yeah. Thats what I want to do.

I'm fairly certain the car was set up spring over with an a frame and a step. And I would like to go extend the frame and go behind so I can get rid of the hump in the middle of the trunk.

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I hear what you're say there. Thanks for bouncing all this around with me.

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If you are getting stuck with no progress while deciding on things; I'd maybe fix the body to stay motivated, and looking at a completely repaired nice body will really get you going.

We have a great metal recycle yard in town, and I'd probably buy a couple of those 10' long "Home Depot" type steel shelving horizontal beams. Two 10's would make a shorter rectangle. They are super strong and you could make a dead straight body table in a day, for cheap.

Having a perfect flat rectangle to build from, allows you to measure the body for twists and keeping the cowl perfectly aligned to the back body. You can tack to it, or weld brackets to pull/push if needed, and knowing it is a perfect 90 degree rectangle, lets you take diagonal measurements to any point on the body to keep it perfect.

 

Rebuilding the body is the plan. I actually need to find a nice frame. The one I am using in pictures has a bunch of pitting on the rails. I was going to break it down and pull out the perfect front and rear crossmembers someone bolted in long ago. But then I got a hair up my ass and decided I could at least chop off the brackets and give it a try.

This has all been a exploratory exercise just to kinda figure where I am going.

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Mark built this car. It's as cool in person as it is in that photo. Mark is a good guy and generous with his knowledge and assistance.

 

Just some extra food for thought, you could run a model t (or model a) crossmember, along with a t spring, with a 32-34 or 37+ rear with the axle bells flipped or swapped side for side. Isky's ran his roadster this way, as well as several other cars have been built that way, mine included. It allows for unrestricted axle height as it's behind the frame. And the cross member could be trimmed to work with the channel.

It moves the cross member forward as well to free up some trunk space!



You can just see that rear set up in this picture.

 

I've been thinking about this alot. Trying to not make any crazy decisions and really planning things out. Like any car build. It's like eating a elephant. I figure if I can do a little thing a day, it will all ad up. With that said I decided the best way forward was rebuild from the front and work my way back. I need to either repair or replace the firewall and the drivers cowl side. Tonight I had time to remove the cowl top and pedals. Here are some pictures.



As you can see the firewall is pretty hacked. I'm kinda tempted to leave it as it is part of the car. But it's just so shitty. I cant bear to have it visible and certainly it detracts from the quality if I leave it. I think my best bet is a stock firewall at this point. I'm gonna go ahead and remove this one and start repairing the cowl side. I can't decide if I should replace the whole thing or save as much as possible it's pitted pretty badly on the inside as well. But again, I don't want to replace the whole car. Thinking I will spot blast this whole area and and pull the complete skin to make sure I get any rust issues in the seams.

I think as far as the channel goes. I am going to leave the pieces that run along the side. They are kinda ruff but will hide well and are part of the car I want to leave. Really as far as the channel goes. I just want to build solid crossmembers, body mounts and a floor while leaving what is here. Cleaning it up slightly( mainly the cuts in the wheel wells) and tie my floor into what is here.

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FWIW, Frank has pretty much nailed it here. Just saying it like it is...

 

You asked me earlier about the swing pedals, now that I see them out, yes, I think they are '53/'54 Ford. Classic stuff. I know we talked a lot off line earlier, this is the remains of an old rod, Frank has nailed the era IMO, as well as the way it would have been built, and he is saying pretty much the same thing I said a few months back.
It's your car, and I won't take you off my Christmas list, but maybe the fact that you don't know which way to go here should give you a hint. Maybe your gut and your head are fighting each other?
Did you ever go check out the channeled car in WA state that was posted on this thread? Why don't you take a drive and go see it? Get a feel for what the finished product would be by going and looking at one in the flesh?

 

Hitchhiker; Are you coming down to Toutle Sunday for the Billet Proof drags?

 

@falcongeorge I think my writing my come off more confused than I am.

Current plans call for repairing the body. I'm still looking for a nice frame to use. But. Basically I am going to go spring behind with a flattened crossmember and a frame height step. I'm going to use a 39 rear with 3:54 gears. Convert it to open drive and use my 36 rear bones and make them ladder bars. The front I am going to go spring above, with the dropped axle that came with it. I want to see it like that before I make a decision to sweep the front of the frame. I am planning flathead (unless a cheap Oldsmobile or Pontiac falls in my lap) and a t5.

Now that the cowl top is out, and I have a piece I can save for color matching. I am gonna blast the body and get to cleaning up the rust while I look for a nice frame.

I'm really just debating out loud how I want to rebuild the body.

I've already started looking for 15's and wheel covers i like. I have 2 wheels so far. One with a old slick even.

And no I have not seen @Pist-n-Broke car yet. But I need to.

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Here are a couple more channeled cars I like.



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The blue one looks good in color.. Hamber nickthebandit has one very similar. His is a mint survivor from 1959, built in Ohio for the shows and never driven, so it still has the original medium blue paint, too.

and, an A roadster was just posted in another thread, pretty cool, eh? :

 

That is wicked cool

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These photos are more than a Year old. There's been some progress but not a lot. Frame is not Z'd or kicked. It's flat front to back. Stock Model A wheel base. 36 rear axle complete with Model A rear spring. Dropped 39 Front axle spring in front and stock Model A frame horns, no split bones. Channeled 6 inches and will end up full fendered. Stock height 32 grill.
The Wizzard

 

Did you end up pushing the front cross member ahead to achieve the stock wheel base with a spring ahead?

 

I swear I've seen it as a rolling chassis (maybe even on this thread), but I stalked your profile Pist-n-Broke, and can find no link to a build thread. Inquiring minds need to know. I'm very interested to know how it's all laid out.

 

Matt, stance-wise, this is very similar to the blue model a in post#232. Full fendered! Pistnbroke, that is gonna be cool!

 

No there is not a build thread. I get so little time to actually work on my own projects I decided to just wait till it's mostly done then post up start to finish. I have however posted up quite a bit of it as reference for others.
I did not push the front crossmember forward. It is mounted in the stock rivet holes however it is a double A piece to accept the 2" spring width. Here is a lay out of all the chassis parts. Look very close at it.

You'll see the actual Frame Rails are not one piece. That's where the added length came from. The front sections and back sections are from two different frames. That's a 36 X member is fit into the outer rails with a 39 trans mount and 39 pedals. I'm also running Non split bones.
Here it is kind of put together. This photo was back in 2011
The Wizzard

 

Does anyone know if the x-members are pretty much the same from '36-'48?