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Ok, this is wierd...bad gas?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vintagesurvivor, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Ok, the Mad Fabricators guys came by today to film the Survivor.
    Last night, after getting the brakes squared away, I took the car for about a 4 mile drive to test, and the car ran perfect, and stopped well also.
    On my way out to the car today, I stopped and got 5 gallons of 110 Octane racing fuel, as the car seems to like this better than pump gas. I filled 5 gallons from the same pump last week, car ran fine on it last night.

    Anyway, so I put the new 5 gallons in the car this am.
    The guy get out there, and the car starts to get a miss / stumble in it right away. On the way to main road it stumbles 3 or 4 times. Hit the main road, it really starts running bad, and I barely got it 1/2 mile home.

    I have an electric pump, so I disconnected the fuel line at the carb, and pumped out all the gas I could.I took the carb apart (94), and blew out everything just to be sure.Checked the float, level, jets, and accel pump. All good. No backfires to ruin the PowerValve, and I can see fuel when running)

    Put in 4.75 gallons of 93 Octane from a different station, fired it up, and it still runs bad, almost won't stay running.
    Thinking I might have had a gallon or so left in the tank the pickup didn't get, I have now removed the tank, cleaned it, dried it, and replaced, and I blew out the fuel lines and the carb.
    I have almost 10 gallons of gas to get rid of now.
    I will let the car dry out tonight, and put 2 gallons of 93 in tomorrow and pray it works.

    Does this sound like some really piss poor gas?????
    Car ran perfect the night before, nothing changed other than adding the new 5 gallons of fuel this AM.

    Can't keep it running now. Pulled plugs too, and they are all a nice even brown, not wet, and not oily.

    Coil, resistor, points , condensor, wires, plugs new. I doubt it's an electrical problem, but you never know....

    Wadda ya think????
    Mark
     
  2. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    Fuel filter? How's the output from the electric pump? Tank vent?

    Flatman
     
  3. If it was water, it would have stayed on the bottom, but it should have pumped out first when you drained it the first time. You'll know a lot more when you put the fresh pump gas back in...
     
  4. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    fuel filter is between the tank and the pump. A few little pieces of gunk, nothing that gets through, its a tight small micron filter. TONS of fuel get through it to the carb. Thats how I pumped all the gas out. Tank vent is OK, and the pump is getting 3.5 PSI, same as before.
    Carb bowl always has fuel in it when I take the top off.
     

  5. Gator
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,016

    Gator
    Member

    That's what I'm thinking. Never overlook the obvious.
     
  6. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Like I said, it's clean. fuel has no problem getting through to the carb.
    Mark
     
  7. MercMan1951
    Joined: Feb 24, 2003
    Posts: 2,654

    MercMan1951
    Member

    If you run it off a pop bottle full of gas straight to the carb, how does it run? If it runs the same, I'd suspect the ignition since you ruled out the filter, and you can rule out the gas in the tank...

    I don't think you have a fuel problem. Something else sounds fishy. I've had BRAND NEW parts be bad off the shelf, so it wouldn't surprise me if you had something 'new' in your ignition system that was the culprit.

    my .02

    Keep us posted.
     
  8. Toystoretom
    Joined: Feb 25, 2006
    Posts: 112

    Toystoretom
    Member

    Do some diagnostic work....

    You need Fuel/air mixture, spark and compression.

    Hook up a compression guage to it and see if that's OK, maybe your timing chain jumped or you burnt some valves with that 110 octane. Compression probably isn't your problem.

    Disconnect the power to your electric fuel pump. Pour a little fresh clean gas down your carb and see if it will run briefly off of that. If it does, you have a fuel problem, if it doesn't, its probably ignition.

    Pull a plug wire or two and stick a plug tester in them or just plain old spark plugs, make sure they are grounded, have an assistant crank the engine over and visually check the quality of your spark. If you are getting a good healthy spark check your timing...

    Just doing these simple tests will probably give you the answer you are looking for...
     
  9. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    True, but, the only thing I changed from last night to this morning is that added gas.

    What else do you think would do this?
     
  10. Had the same thing happen once and it was the coil.
     
  11. Upchuck
    Joined: Mar 19, 2004
    Posts: 1,576

    Upchuck
    Member
    from Canada BC

    is it backfiring or just stumbling along? backfiring I'd say its electrical bad coil or lose hightension wire from coil to cap, what color is the exhaust when it is running?
     
  12. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Its a clear exhaust. Bad stuble/miss. Plugs are all light even brown, not wet, not oily at all. I am pretty sure the spark is firing OK.
    Mark
     
  13. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,509

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    Do you have dual points?
     
  14. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

  15. Points Loose ? Or Wire Loose At Dist ...
    Loose Vac Hose-collapsed..
    Dble Check Ground Wires On Elect Pump Too.
    Caused By Vibrataion On Shake Down Tour To Get Gas..

    Older Carbs And Such Are Affected By Unleaded Fuel
    Gaskets Swell And Deteriorate...slowly After First Install

    Add Isoprpal Gasline Anti Freeze heet
    If Cant Find It Now Out Of Season...
    Many Places Have Bad Gas Pays To Run Year Round
    Good Luck
     
  16. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,509

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    Was Piero good to you?
     
  17. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    yes, points are gapped corectly (.022+/-), dual point Mallory.
    Ran PERFECT when I sut it down yesterday. I had no indication of anything not being right.
    Points are clean, and dwelled at 32 total.

    Mark
     
  18. Upchuck
    Joined: Mar 19, 2004
    Posts: 1,576

    Upchuck
    Member
    from Canada BC

    if you got a manual choke try messing with that a bit and see if it helps. that would at least tell you its starving for fuel

    you didn't accidently put diesel fuel in instead of gas? had a friend do that once amazingly enough it actually ran mixed with what gas he had in the tank
     
  19. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Points are tight, I checked that first.
    Sucked on the vac line to dizzy, and drew air, no leaks.
    Fuel pump works great, plenty of pressure and fuel in bowl to corect level.

    Piero and Bob were very cool, and very nice guys. I was happy to meet them, and thought they were great.
    Mark
     
  20. Upchuck
    Joined: Mar 19, 2004
    Posts: 1,576

    Upchuck
    Member
    from Canada BC

    try and bypass the ballast resistor maybe its fried, what color is the spark at the plugs?
     
  21. Racing gas doesn't seem to go bad like pump gas. I've had a can of C12 VP fuel laying around for about 2 years and finallny now I've been using it in my 2 stroke yamaha with no problems. Motorcycles are more sensitive to bad gas so its a good idea to run 87 octane from popular gas stations because its the freshest gas around. What compresion is your car?
     
  22. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    It's getting fuel from the run circuit , I can see it dribbling on the butterflies like I did before this problem.
    I didnt put diesel in unless they put it in the wrong pump :D

    It seems to be getting gas, just intermittently , or mixed with something that does not like to burn.

    Mark
     
  23. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Unknown compression, but it's fairly high. Dad used to put AvGas in it, built it to run on that stuff in the early 60's.
    Olds 324. Dads been gone 26 years, didnt write anything down, and I am not tearing into a motor thats been bottled up for 47 years : )
     
  24. Sounds like the problem I was having with mine. Chased it everywhere, was a bad coil, last thing I changed. Pat.
     
  25. Check That Both sets Of Points Work
    Verify Their Cylinders And Check Each Has The Fire Blue Knock Your Ass Down Spark.. ...
    Have Seen 1 Of The 2 Go Bad And Its Identifyable With A Test Light
    Check Wear Block And Dist Cam Lube And Free/ Clear Movement Of Both Sets Fully Close And Open...

    Good Luck
     
  26. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Hmmm, maybe I'll get a generic coil , and swap it out, just to see......
    Here is car..
     

    Attached Files:

  27. File Points Too
     
  28. vintagesurvivor
    Joined: Mar 12, 2006
    Posts: 385

    vintagesurvivor
    Member
    from detroit

    Check.

    The thing that gets me is that it was like an instantaneous change. One night, perfect, next day, shit. Only dif was the gas.

    I will pick up a coil, put new gas in, and see what happens. If gas doesnt do it, I'll swap the coil.

    Mark
     
  29. Condensors are kind of iffy these days,some are not real high quality. You may want to check those too. Hope you find it, I've been there too.

    Doc
     
  30. mikekillstheday
    Joined: Mar 7, 2006
    Posts: 187

    mikekillstheday
    Member

    i havent seen anyone post this but... check for vacuum leaks. happened to friends bucket ran geat around the block but the next day wouldnt even idle, just kept stalling. tightened manifold and carb reset air fuel mix and ran like a champ.
     

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