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Ok, need help from guys who know their mopars. POLY 331 related.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mpls|cafe|racer, May 21, 2009.

  1. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    I have a line on a Chrysler Windsor "Spitfire" 331c.i. V8.

    I don't know for sure if it is stuck yet, but I would assume the worst.

    I'm wondering though, is this something that there are a good enough selection of parts out there that it can be rebuilt?

    I'd really like to run it since it's something kinda different/cool, but I don't want to buy something that I can't rebuild easily, or have to wait forever to track down something that would be a common part on any other setup.

    If you know anything at all about these polys PLEASE reply!

    Thanks!
     
  2. DE SOTO
    Joined: Jan 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,857

    DE SOTO
    Member

    Contact EGGE Machine or Kanter.

    Also try MAD DOG RACING in FLA at 954-239-4560

    Either of them should be able to cover your Internal Parts Needs.
     
  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    I had no trouble getting parts to rebuild my Packard V8 from Kanter. You should be allright if slightly poorer after buying parts for the Chrysler. But it will be neet when it's done.
     
  4. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA


  5. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
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    Pics

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    Signs point to NOT stuck. Tranny fluid and oil still checks out good.... nothing in carb and the linkage still moves.... removed valve cover and still moist, no water or soild crap/signs of mice making homes..... the air cleaner has been on it the whole time with the hood down. :D

    I am waiting to hear what they want for it.
     
  6. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    My research (from a not very smooth lookin site) says 250hp on the 4BL version above. Can anyone who knows this stuff confirm? Anyone know the torque, the weight, etc?
     
  7. swazzie
    Joined: Mar 30, 2004
    Posts: 940

    swazzie
    Member

    Try performance automotive warehouse . PAW
     
  8. 30dodge
    Joined: Jan 3, 2007
    Posts: 464

    30dodge
    Member
    from Pahrump nv

    1956 the Chrysler Windsor poly had 331 c,i.d. with an optional 4 bbl carb and X2 exaust for another 25 HP over the standard 225 HP.
    Take the plugs out and put in lots of trany fluid mixed with lacquer thinner.
    If it turns over by hand it will make a mess if not let it sit and try another day.
     
  9. Godspeed
    Joined: Sep 5, 2005
    Posts: 357

    Godspeed
    Member

    If you look at the first four alphanumeric characters stamped into the webbing between the heads (behind the water crossover in the fron of the engine) you will see something like WE56. WE is for the Windsor, and 56 is the model year. In 57 there was a 354 poly with a 4bbl.

    According to "The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual" by Tex Smith (http://www.hothemiheads.com/hemi_info/hemi_manual_complete.html ), there were no 331 4 bbls Polys.

    Here are the numbers:
    WE56 331 1956 225hp@4400 310lbft@2400 8.5:1 2BBL Windsor
    250hp@4600 340lbft@2800 9.0:1 2BBL Optional
    WE57 354 1957 285hp@4600 365lbft@2400 9.25:1 2BBL Windsor
    295hp@4600 390lbft@2800 9.25 4BBL Optional

    The weight of the 331/354 is 697lb (drop 35 lbs if cast iron generator, Water pump, starte, and Intake manifold are replaced with aluminum or more modern components)

    NOTE: Change the push rods, pistons, heads and you have a hemi! Hemi parts are easier to find (EGGE, PAW, Hot Heads http://www.hothemiheads.com/ )

    More information is at http://www.allpar.com/mopar/poly.html
     
  10. greaser57
    Joined: Feb 7, 2009
    Posts: 252

    greaser57
    Member
    from minnesota

    Block is the same as a Hemi.................Rich
     
  11. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    Thanks for the info guys!

    I'm gonna go back out there today with a 2' bar, a ratchet and plug sockets and see if I can't get this baby to spin for me. If it's not stuck I'm gonna be on it like white on rice, since i need something for a project I will be working on very soon!
     
  12. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    My '58 354 with 4bbl is rated at 310HP from the factory - about 35 hp less than the 392 hemi of the same year.
     
  13. Darby
    Joined: Sep 12, 2004
    Posts: 426

    Darby
    Member

    Poly's are tough and different. Torque monsters. Think how awesome those valvecovers will look all painted up in an open-hood car...
     
  14. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    Trust me bud, you don't need to convince THIS guy! ;)

    I've been looking at this motor and drooling for awhile now. It's not gonna be the fastest thing on the planet, but damned if I won't smile when I drive it and smile when I come outside and see it! I think THAT'S the sign of a perfect car, isn't it? :D
     
  15. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    Yeah, I've talked to a few people who were into these old polys and the general concensus is the same.... there's no reason NOT to keep it a Poly unless you're dead set on the look of a Hemi.... considering that the Poly is, in it's own right, just as mean of a mill compared to a lot of other stuff out there of similar displacement.
     
  16. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    Alright picking it up for sure. It's been checked and it for sure turns over and is not even remotely stuck.

    $350.00 later and I'll have a motor to drop into my oerland project. :D
     
  17. I know the Hemi heads will bolt on to a Windsor block but I think there is some block prep required to allow for pushrod clearance. A friend of mine ran a 300 incher at Bonneville and thats what he had to do.
     
  18. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
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    I think you're right. There needs to be a *hair* more clearance for the pushrods.
     
  19. Contrary to what good ole Tex Smith said(and it was probably a typo), there was a four barrel version of the "single rocker shaft" (as the Motor's Manual calls it) motor in '56, came in the Windsor and had 250 horses @4600 and 340 lbs.ft. @2800. This motor was 9.0:1 compared to 8.5:1 on the 2bbl. Bore; 3.8125" Stroke; 3.625" normal oil pressure 40-65

    This is the same stoke as the 354 but the bore is 1/8" different.
     
  20. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    That's what I'm picking up. I was also told that if I do anything different that requires the removal of the stock 4 barrell intake that I should hold onto it, because they aren't very common.

    I've got a few ideas for things I'd like to do down the road, but for now, it's just gonna get cleaned up and painted.
     
  21. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    I think that the hemi low block - 331/354 intakes interchange with the 331/354 Poly, in which case you could also go for an aftermarket 2-4 or 3-2, 4-2 or even 6-2 intake.

    The 4bbl was standard on the 354 Poly on the '57 Saratoga models for sure. The Windsors models had the 2 bbl. The 4 bbl was good for a quoted extra 20 hp.
     
  22. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    Except for the pistons everything is the same in the block. So get in the Hemi Tech Index. Every trick, tip & update mentioned can be done to the Poly engine. As far as the poly to hemi conversion, the ex mans are different also.
     
  23. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    I think there is some block prep required to allow for pushrod clearance

    The extra clearance hole is very prominent, and not all 331 & 354 blocks were relieved - it's almost a keyhole, but all the 300" (1955 301) Chrysler-based blocks already had this done.

    Note the piston dome: a hemi would have valve reliefs exactly opposite each other. Any Chrysler dome with offset reliefs is for some poly. Those are both intake reliefs (since the exhaust valve doesn't need one) so they can use the same piston on both banks.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. I would check on the Hemi four bbl manifold bolting on to your Poly. The Hemi is pretty narrow you may need spacers. Interesting article concerning the 56 Fury being prepared for Daytona speed week. They bolted on a 300B intake but needed to use spacers because the Fury had a poly head. Now I know what your going to say..The Chrysler is a longer engine than the Plymouth, so the statements of the article may not be acurate.
     
  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    A '56 Fury should have had an "A" Poly. They did put a ew 354 Chr in some Dodges(police cars) opening the door for 354s in Dodges(if i remember right), don't rescall antyhing simular with Plymouth. Chr Poly & hemi intake is supposed to interchange. If you meant using a Chr intake on a Plymouth(actually Dodge) poly or hemi engine, it'd be too big to fit.
     
  26. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    So you're saying the chrysler 331 hemi intake will fit on the poly motor with the poly heads?

    I was told otherwise.
     
  27. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,447

    George
    Member

    I've heard both also, but Leo's book says they will. Most sources list the complete head assembly, pistons & ex mans are all that's needed to convert. Per Leo's book casting# 1731703 57-8(that'd be 392) & 57-8 Windsor& saratoga(that'd be a 354 Poly).
     

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