OK 94 Carb experts...how would you proceed?

Hi guys...
I have multiple projects coming to conclusion that will need multiple Ford 94 Carbs:
A Chevy 350 needing 3
A Ford Yblock needing 3
An HA/GR Gas rail needing 2

I have been gathering carbs for 3 years now (pardon the poor pics):


There is a variety of carbs...
59 ---- (4)
EGC --- (4)
EBC ----(2)
91-99 - (2)
7RT ----(3)
8BA----(6)
EC-----(2)
Lincoln Zepher --(2)
06H---(1)
And 2 with no model number.

I also bought a bunch of blastted tops and bowls:


I notice that there are 2 different kinds of tops:


And I have 2 that have been chromed.

I have searched and found the links to getting the patina back as the pre-blasted ones look like manure compared to a rebuilt one:


My questions are:

I would like to batch process the cleaning/blasting/testingand checking of the parts. Is that do-able?

Where is the currect best deal on new throttle rods?

Are there any "gotchas" involved in redoing these carbs?

Has anyone had issues with chrome bowls and tops?

Does anyone have a USED chromed one for sale I can use to complete a set?


All help appreciated!

Glenn

 

The difference in the tops if you haven't found out yet is the ones with the wide round ring at the top ate truck carbs. As for the other stuff I have never tried any of it. Sorry

 

True, although some careful cutting and filing removes the sideways VEE and allows you to use regular clamps/aircleaners.

Some tops have a relief to clear the later high lift nozzle bars. The yellow on the one pictured carburetor is chromate.

The EGC and EBC have larger venturis.

 

Lower top in last pic has the high-lift bump. I think most of the carbs listed are pre-high lift.
Main other distinction is internal vent (tube sticking into throat) and external. Go with internal if you have enough for all the sorting you need to do.

 

(from letter)
Questions..Can I process more than just one model from that list in a batch together? I will be using a tumbler with crushed walnut to clean and burnish the parts. I cannot use a carb dip due to my garage situation and the fumes.

For polishing I think all can be mixed. Most fall into 2 slightly different color grousps once coatings are gone, probably different mixtures of Zinc stuff. In terms of mixing parts, the 8BA and 7RT are very similar, I think differing only in external levers, giving you a big matching batch. I accumulate mostly 59's, just so everything matches up.

Could you elaborate a bit on the High Lift issue... what it does and why?

The high lift bars...I don't pay much attention to post 1948 carbs, but in I think 1952 they went from the high-in-the-middle nozzle bars used from 1939-51 to one high in the rear. I've never seen much info, don't have much late model Ford stuff, but I think they allowed a stronger lift from fuel level up to discharge level and also had better air-break provisions because early carbs had a tendency to siphon fuel over the bars. There was also a third generation with secondar venturis made onto the bars, but I think those were all larger Y-block carbs and not actual 94's.

 

Thanks Bruce.
If I can process them in 3 groups that woould be just about perfect.

Thanks again for all that you share with us!

Glenn

 

High lift bars in an 8RT. You cannot, repeat cannot put a non-relieved top on a body with these bars. They are right triangle shaped as opposed to arrowhead shaped, for lack of a better description.

 

By "High Lift Bars", I assume you refer to the one on the left?

 

Those are venturi boosters.

 

The two you have in the lower picture are truck carbs and do not use the same air cleaner as the car ones. I use a turbo pipe clamp on the truck carbs. I usually process three matching carbs at one time. I use a yellow / gold chromate bath to get the proper color. 91-99 carbs use an external vent, that means it draws unfiltered air into the bowl. On your carb tops check to see if any have a 1/4" hole drilled in under the choke rod arm, This was done as some of the early castings did not have an open vent. However I found that a lot of internal vented carbs had been drilled. This must have been a "recall" in 47 or 48 and most mechanics saw a closed external vent and assumed that it had the casting flaw and drilled it, not knowing that it was an internal vented carb. I can load images if you need, let me know.....

 

Yes Please, Rick.
I have noticed that I have tops with and without the hole and tube.
The first 2 batches I processed were 59's and Lincoln Zephyrs. All the 59's had the vent tube...all the Lincolns did not.
I also noticed that the 59's had borh typs of tops....the one with the extension for clamping an air cleaner upon, and the shorter ones like those in the color comparison photo above. All of the Lincolns had the other type, different from that picture. One actually had a rubber and thread packing material in the grooves, I assume to force a better seal.

They are now off at Morely Performance getting colored. They have done a lot of carbs here in the St. Louis area.


I'll post pics of the final results.

 

Hye Glenn, be advised that the later y-block carbs [ECG-6 and others] have larger throttle plate bores and the available extended throttle shafts will not fit these bases. Early Ford component rebuilder and machinist extraordinaire Charlie Schwendler in Orchard Park NY [charlieny on the fordbarn] can custom make and fit extended throttle shafts for them.

 

It is hard to establish a chronaolgy for the venting changes...many carbs have been through repeated mass-production rebuilds over the years and are random combinations of castings now.
I too believe that at least the 59 had the inside vent originally. No real experience with 29's.
There are two external vent locations you will see...some have the hole on the back of the accel pump hump, others have the tiny oval depression open...the oval is cast into all of them but only opened on a few. You can see a closed one in the 3rd photo, on the rib abaft the inlet on the complete gray carb.
There were at least 78, 91, 29, and 59 94's on the early Fords, plus the several non-94 Lincoln and 60HP variants, and of course minor differences between Ford-built and Holley built carbs.
Nearly all I own are 59's or 92's...I decided to just not buy the others in general so any I have will go right into a matched set.
The Lincoln 1" ones have a bunch of variants, too...and they didn't even bother to change the 06 casting when they made changes! AND...the blasted Lincoln parts book is clearly incomplete in the carb section...

I have heard or perhaps read somewhere that the external vent at front caused trouble when they went from the low fan used on most '39-41 cars back to the high fan... high RPM fan blast was said to have pressurized the bowl enough to richen the mixture. Reminiscent of the secret windscreen tech applied by some to Strombergs...
Don't know if that makes sense, as first uses (limited beta testing in 1937, move into full production during 1938) had high fans...
Lincolns I think generally had the low fan.
Probably this can only be worked out by studying ancient change letters at Ford archives and correlating results to the parts usage charts in the '28-48 books.

 

You guys are great! I'm learning a ton here.

Getting back to the photo in post #8....
Is there any difference in performance between these two?
Is there any method or "need-to-know" in installing them in one carb or another?

 

Sorry for the delay.....
1.- turbo clamp for air cleaner on truck carb top
2.this is the location of the drilled hole
3. no vent tube
4. no external bowl vent
5.internal vent tube with 6.drilled hole
7. holley four barrel bowl has not external vent hole

 

one more....this is a top WITH an external vent and NO vent tube

 

Do you still need an extra old chrome one?

 

Huh....if the air cleaner is in place how would the fan effect the bowl vent??????

 

10 minutes with Holley 94 This post shows how easy it is to alter truck style top for more conventional air filter. Regards, Ron

 

"Do you still need an extra old chrome one?"

Yes, I do.
You gots one?


seabeecmc...
NICE link.....thanks!!

 

"if the air cleaner is in place how would the fan effect the bowl vent" That was in the discussion of the EXTERNAL vent and its eventual demise.

 

Great discussions and photos. Thanks.

 

Can you swap out the high lift bars for the short ones ? I'm putting together a 6x2 and I have 9 carbs. 2 of my really nice carbs have high lift bars and the rest short. Can I simply just swap them out. I'm using 4 8bA and 2 7rt.

 

Btt

 

I've never looked into that, but I don't see why you could not swap. I dimly remember the retainer bars and screw lengths also need to match the nozzle bars, but you seem to have plenty of parts. I think '39--end of use early bars are all the same, 91A numbers, and the only ones you would not want to mix are the '37-38 78 ones which have different size air bleeds.

 

Only thing not mentioned (unless I missed it) watch for the venturi diameters. Not all "94's" are "94's". a 94 will have a 15/16" (.94") venturi. I have some Holley 2100's that have 1" venturi's and a couple of mismatched later carbs with 1-1/16" venturi's.

Just make sure, when making up a set, that you use similar types.

Mart.

 

And...some late 94 relatives, like the big IHC truck ones, can be found with entirely incorrect casting markings caused I guess by adaptation of old molds! I recently looked over an IHC that had bowl markings identifying it as a 1942 type 21-29 model, even though almost nothing else about it could be visually or mechanically matched with a real 94.
Also, most people on the HAMB fail to post model numbers, and try to discuss "94's" in general, though often what they have is not really a 94 or has characteristics that are specific to only certain 94's...folks, asking a question about a 94 without the model information can be like asking questions about a SBC witout any further info. Hey, what carb is used on a stock SBC, huh?

 

I was pretty sure they would interchange but wanted to hear from someone else before I did. I have 4 8ba's, 4 7rt's and 1 2100 and they are all .94 venturies. I think all the parts will interchange. 2 of the art's have already had the tops changed.

Thanks for the help, I searched and searched then said to hell with it I'll just ask

 

Most of this could be sorted out (if someone had the time, I don't) by building a database of part numbers from the Holley Master Parts books. After reading this thread, I went to the library and spent about an hour. There are roughly 100 plus pages on Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, I.H.C., G.M.C. and others that used the type AA series Holley in the MP; plus there are several Holley service bulletins where Holley changed specifications (and why) to various components of these carburetors, and several data sheets in the metal cans before they published the MP.

Surely, some of you Ford gurus have this information. Or maybe noone else has the time either.

These page counts do not include the later 2100's that some throw in with the AA-1's. Page counts increase by quite a few when one tosses in the 2100's.

Jon.

 

I shortcut that process after I figgeredout there were one million variants...now I own Model 59's almost exclusively!
For Fords only there are still a lot. I pretty much ignore anything past 1948, and work out of the simpler but still pretty gnarly charts in the Ford and Lincoln parts catalogs... they have a section listing the Ford numbers for each component for each model that FoMoCo used.
There are some truly strange, almost unrecognizable relatives of the 94 around...the Army Holley carb manual shows some of these things with only the center casting recognizable, and varations in essentially every system from Ford usage...built in governors, power valves actuated by separate piston from above, spring and ball instead of needle in check valve, different pump shooters...Aaaaargh!
In actual up to '48 Ford stuff, the '37-8 model 78 has the most diffs, 91--59 are much the same with most variations in the vents. Then there is V8-60 and a surprising number of Lincoln V-12 variants...then all those REALLY weird GMC and Internationals...then, Lord help us, the Volkswagen variant!!