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Technical Oiling issues on Small Journal 327, no oil pressure at idle

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. mrhp
    Joined: Nov 19, 2006
    Posts: 233

    mrhp
    Member
    from MICHIGAN

    What port are you using to get your pressure?
     
  2. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    It's also with a cordless drill at probably 400-500 rpms.
    Both ports read the same.
     
  3. I feel the pain in a different sense. There's the one right off the top even before installing them. The instructions state. "Be sure to check lifter bore for excessive clearance". :eek: Then there's a lifter or two that likes to bleed down every now and again and takes a few miles of slow driving until it pumps back up. That's been an issue since day one. And I'm not the only person that has this issue with Hyd. Rollers. Mine is a retro fit as well. All thing combined has had me thinking I should of went Solid Roller. I'm not saying you should do that. I'm just sharing the pain of doing what we do. :)
     
    falcongeorge likes this.
  4. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    I would go back with a conventional hyd cam if I could do it without changing springs. I was trying to mitigate any lobe wear issues due to the lack of zinc these days. Trying to reduce maintenance.....
     
    pat59 and Johnny Gee like this.
  5. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,863

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    What springs do you have now? They might be too much pressure for a flat tappet.
     
  6. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  7. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    :D:D

    Personally, I have no first hand experience with hyd rollers. And after what I have heard about them from engine builders I respect that do have first hand experience with them, I never will...;)
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  8. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,289

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Yep
    No better way to ruin a 900 mile trip to Bako than to have the axles go tits up in a new set of Crane hydraulic roller lifters half way there.
    Troubleshooting what was thought to be a throwout bearing chirp in a Walmart parking lot at 10:00 pm and discovering your new 468 BBC is shitting itself is no fun .
    Hello Lunati.
     
    Johnny Gee and falcongeorge like this.
  9. Another well known brand that I'm running did that but I found it before anything bad happened. Called the cam company to say I was going to send it in to have them put new roller and axle. Here's the reply. "We don't rebuild Hydraulic Roller lifter's. Only Solid's". So I had to buy a single set of roller lifters. :(
     
  10. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    This makes me a little nervous. What kinda life are you getting out of them? Granted I am not running a very aggressive cam.
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  11. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    Root, I still think the problem is the rear cam brg.
     
  12. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    Why? I have flow the size of your finger in the oil galleries. I may try and pull the cam and look to verify.
     
  13. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    If the cam is still in and you're spinning the pump with a drill I can see why you still have oil flowing. I know that checking the cam brg will require pulling the pan,, but you are almost there already.
     
  14. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    The pan is basically loose, just a couple of bolts holding it on. I am curious why you think it still has a bad bearing? No arguing here, just trying to figure the logic.
     
  15. The future hasn't arrived so no worries. Let things come as they will. Also, one does not become Master with self without experience. :)
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  16. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    I'm tired of experience.....
     
  17. tomcat11
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 128

    tomcat11
    Member
    from Kalifornia

    Babyearl thinks according to his earlier post the the rear cam bearing may be out of position. I say it's possible but probably not.
    I think your original problem was related to the relief valve in the HV 55 pump being damaged by welding or poor quality in general and WAS NOT FULLY CLOSED.
    My hunch is that the problem is fixed with the new pump. I still question the hydraulic roller tappets restricting oil. I don't think you are exposing the oil groove either with the cam lift you have however lifter bore to lifter clearance needs to be around .0015" any larger and you will start to bleed off oil pressure.
    Personally I would not run a hydraulic roller set up. I would do as many checks as is possible especially checking the main and rod bearings while keeping an eye out for any debris and replace them if needed. Check the crank oil holes for debris as well.

    Once you are satisfied that the bearings are in good condition and there is no debris. button it up and fire it!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  18. NoSurf
    Joined: Jul 26, 2002
    Posts: 4,120

    NoSurf
    Member

    Did this get resolved?
     
  19. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    I hope so. I took the thing back apart and checked cam bearings etc. All looks good. I started at the back pulling lifter from each hole checking the flow with the new Milodon standard volume pump. I would check each hole as I moved forward, ensuring that I had plenty of oil, which I did. I had oil all the way to the timing chain and it was filling up the cups on the lifters. I also installed 2 manual oil pressure gauges. One on the front of the oil galley and one in the rear to check for differences in pressure. That all looks good. I put it all back together and I am building a test run stand. I just haven't gotten back around to it. BTW, I show 25-30 lbs oil prerssure with a cordless drill.
     
    NoSurf likes this.
  20. Remember also you must rotate the engine when priming to get the groove in the lifters to line up so you get oil to all.... It takes a while to get oil out of all pushrods. I soak all hyd. lifters in oil overnight before installing.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  21. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    Yep, it was rotated. I am thinking it was the pump. I haven't removed the spring etc, bt that is the most likely culprit. I am gonna run the piss out of it on the stand to make sure.
     
    redlineracer42 likes this.
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,289

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Hawg
    I bet some brewsky's will be in order when this fiasco has been put to bed.
     
  23. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

    I will definitely be glad to be finished. I know more about a sbc oiling system than I ever wanted to.
     
  24. cliff549
    Joined: Jul 10, 2016
    Posts: 13

    cliff549

    Had The same prob. with a BBC seems the new pump had an extra roll pin in FRONT of the relief valve after that I disassembled all pumps before installing
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  25. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    Root,, I'm happy for you,, I guess I would have lost a ton of money on that bet. Keep us posted after you fire it off.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  26. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,457

    Roothawg
    Member

  27. dfriend
    Joined: Mar 7, 2012
    Posts: 20

    dfriend
    Member
    from B.C.canada

    Just read all the posts and hope the problem is fixed. I agree with some posts as well disagree with others. I have all my life had sbc and bbc street as well race. the rollers have restricters to limit oil to roller rockers (as needed for roller rockers) do not put restrciter in the block. (ONE OR THE OTHER) If you do, not enough oil will get to the rockers. You have to spin the pump with a drill with the pan off, stick your head under and see where the oil is leaking from. O also on the roller lifters there should be a slot or passageway to the cam roller for lube to the needles for the street. race rollers don't have this and rely on splash for lube. If you have 25 to 30 psi with a 1/2 drill at 500rpm you are there. The oil you see in the back drain hole could be lack of o rings for dist shaft or you are seeing the oil out of the pump relief. Hope this helps
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  28. The HellyDid
    Joined: May 1, 2011
    Posts: 124

    The HellyDid
    Member
    from Florida

    Root how did it pan out. Did you get that run in stand done? Like to know the outcome.
     
  29. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 544

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    I had exactly this happen as well on a 283. Had to pull everything and fortunately nothing was hurt. After redoing that, I had 40 to 45 psi at idle and the engine is purring still.
     
    BradinNC likes this.
  30. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,488

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Be interesting to see if your whirring sound is gone since you changed the timing set. I think your first sentence pretty well pointed to the pump, "I fired it and it had no oil pressure". Hope you got it fixed. Lippy
     

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