Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods Oil pan to Axle clearance sbf Swap

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hyvolt, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I am in the process of installing a small block ford in my 41, and i am in a situation where I have the shallowest oil pan I can get( explorer), and without even all the weight on the car i'm around 3 to 4 (depends on motor placement height) inches from the straight axle to the oil pan. I have the stock crossmember in the car, reversed eye spring and some leaves out. I'd like to keep the car low, but I don't like what i am looking at. If I move the motor any more forward I have to come up above the crossmember, which I feel puts the engine to far up in the chassis. I will have some pics tomorrow, just brainstorming while I cant sleep.
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,595

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I would raise the engine and trans. Up 2" won't hurt, if it fits.

    4" is kinda close. Finding out the hard way could get spendy.
     
  3. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 892

    fordor41
    Member

    I installed a '81 SBF/C-4 in my '41 fordor. Used a "dual sump" pan(T-bird, Bronco I believe). Pushed the engine back to "just" clear the firewall and the front of the sump just cleared the rear of the front X-member. had to play with D.S. exh. manifold to clear the steering box. Settled on a early mustang rear dump to clear steering box ( saginaw from a jeep). I say "just" I mean about 1/4". Was in the car that way from about '95 to when I sold it in 2016. Used stock ford truck water pump, Walker 4 core rad. Didn't modify the firewall or frame at all. Batt. in stock location. connected the 2-3 shifting lever on the column to the C-4 and good to go. When I first installed the SBF it was matted to the stock 3 speed. When I installed the C-4 couple yrs later the engine mount holes were within 1/2 of a hole off between the 3 speed and the C-4. I used flathead bisquit motor mounts.
     
  4. irishsteve
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 597

    irishsteve

    Can you notch the pan for a extra inch,or so? Didnt the Bronco use a rear sump pan if that would help.
     
    Cooon, Mr48chev and LOU WELLS like this.
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I have both mustang and explorer oil pans and the explorer is shallower by 1/2 inch. Taking my daughter to get her driving permit, so pics to be delayed till tonight. I'm running a rts t170 trans. I had the engine sitting on the cross member, and I thought it was too high, but I guess not. I am going to run a serpentine setup. I have 2 engines, a 93 t-bird 5.0 with the short drive, and a explorer 5.0 with the short drive. By the way, the explorer is 3/8 shorter than the t-bird. I also have a t5 sitting here and an AOD. Wanted to cover all the bases

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  6. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,280

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Depends what its in and the motion in the ocean I guess. In my unibody i have 3/4 of an inch between the pan and the crossmember. Works just fine. Except for that one time my motor mount failed and the motor was sitting on the frame at that point. If you have suspension moving underneath, then thats another story.
     
  7. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I've also been weighing everything with a new in line scale, and recording all info. Right now, I know the 221 flathead w/o carb or generator, but with flywheel and clutch is right at 500

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  8. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I did some measurements. I don't think you can get any shallower than the explorer without a custom oil pump, even then you would be less than a half inch. This pan is 5 3/8 deep. Measures with the table level
    I have the pump as right at 5inchs, measured off the gasket to include it in the equation. 20191231_093701.jpeg 20191231_093752.jpeg 20191231_094224_HDR.jpeg 20191231_094240_HDR.jpeg

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    Explorer pan first. Will have mustang pulled later, but have it on the engine now. It is deeper. 20191231_093840_HDR.jpeg 20191231_093825_HDR.jpeg 20191230_200817_HDR.jpeg 20191230_200811_HDR.jpeg

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,250

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  11. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    Well, I managed to wrestle the engine around for a while, and with 3/8 of a shim under the oil pan and between the cross member it looks pretty good. I'd really like to drop it down further, but I think the original flathead block was only 11/16 below the engine mounts. What do you think?

    Looks like I can also fit exhaust and oil filter. Plan on using a Saginaw power steering box. Mount from Weedetr should be here by end of the week. After that is mounted, I'll start on some mounts 20191231_160607_HDR.jpeg 20191231_160524_HDR.jpeg 20191231_160512.jpeg 20191231_160808_HDR.jpeg

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,595

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Don't sweat the center of gravity too much.

    Yes, the flathead was lower in the chassis, but you also lowered the whole vehicle.

    Your CG is still likely below the original.
     
  13. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,351

    A Boner
    Member

    Jumping through hoops to install a Ford in a Ford. Sometimes they even give you an award!
     
  14. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,077

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I run a Fox Body pan and pickup . But up oil pump is behind the front axle centerline location.
     
  15. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    What trans are you using, and how low is the car? I can get it behind the cross, I just have the car so low I think the axle may hit the pan.

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  16. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,077

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I’m a 32 , the oil pan sump is about 4 - 4 1/2 inches from the road surface . When I first built my car , I was fighting stage 4 cancer . I put an LT1 , Turbo 400 drivetrain in it because it is what I had , and I was afraid I would never get to take a ride in the car . The Chebbie oil pan was the height of a pack of Camel Fags on its side from the pavement . It never hit one thing and the Ford has never touched a thing either . It seems low , and I worried a bit at first , now I don’t even think about it . I’m running a late 5.0 roller , with a C4 , the C4 is fine with my rear gear ratio of 3.00 . I taller gear and AOD or Tremec 5 speed is an option also .
     
  17. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    Got some measurements on the fox body oil pan. I hope this can help someone besides me. I couldn't find this info anywhere. Total height of front sump of pan is 5 3/4. Square is divided in 8ths. Oil pump pic is of the same fox body 5.0, same height as the explorer oil pump. A couple of shots of the underside where the axle and pan live. Also looks like a mechanical fan is a go. I think I will go with a champion radiator. 20191231_201540.jpeg 20191231_201643_HDR.jpeg 20191231_201720_HDR.jpeg 20191231_201950_HDR.jpeg 20191231_202012_HDR.jpeg 20191231_202816_HDR.jpeg 20191231_202831_HDR.jpeg

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

  19. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 892

    fordor41
    Member

    rear sump means the oil pump pickup tube is extended and moved to the rear sump but the oil pump still is in front. tried to modify a oil pan but didn't gain anything
     
  20. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 892

    fordor41
    Member

  21. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 892

    fordor41
    Member

    there may be a difference between a 302 and a 5.0. when I installed my 302 the front edge of the oil pan just cleared the back of the front spring U-bolts. hardy any of the oil pan extended over the x member or U-bolts.
     
  22. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,077

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    All the same no difference in a 302 and a 5.0 . The engine is never going to “grow” and closer to the crossmember , it doesn’t move , the suspension is another thing to define . I do think if possible you could move to the rear a tad bit and it would help you a ton . Are you going to run a carb ? It so I would sit an intake on the engine and look at the angles with a protractor . Most intakes are designed to be near level with the engine lower in the rear .
     
  23. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,085

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    What is the distance of front axle travel to the frame rails, is it more than the axle to the pan ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  24. lucas1946merc
    Joined: Aug 5, 2018
    Posts: 36

    lucas1946merc

    F150 pans have the oil pump at the rear, so the front is smaller, the earlier 302s eg. 75 mustang have a front oil pump. Depends where your crossmember sits.
     
  25. Unless your motor mounts fail, the oil pan clearance won't change. I've been though this many times through the years. You're headed in the correct direction. There's no better pan than what you are using. The oil pump is the determining factor in this. You already know the explorer drive setup is the shortest that is available from the factory. I know Walker's are expensive but if you intend to keep the car for a long time, I would recommend you buy one. Happy working!
     
  26. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    My pan will cover the u bolts by less than an inch. I can get the motor behind the cross, but it wedges the rear of the block with the valve cover against the firewall. I can manage to drop it low enough that it all falls below the wedge point, and the problem then is I'm 3 inches from axle to pan contact. Right now I think what satisfies the most issues is with the pan on top of the cross, with 3/8 clearance.
    I can

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  27. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I will have to bring my bump stops down. Right now I think the axle will hit the pan before the frame. This is with the pan over the cross
    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    I've pulled everything back out of the car, going to start cleaning the chassis up, doing some boxing of the x member from where I hacked it last time. Steering box mount should be here soon, and I am putting the Saginaw box in then fab time. And I do plan to run a carb.



    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,040

    Budget36
    Member

    Could the center area on the axle that's under the pan be dropped for clearance? I've only dealt with crossmember clearance/placement.
     
    Desmodromic likes this.
  30. Hyvolt
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 260

    Hyvolt
    Member

    Can't mess with the cross that can see. Spring is in front of axle on this car. The diagonal bar is my panhard bar. 20200101_171515_HDR.jpeg

    Sent from my LM-V405 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.