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Technical Oil on my spark plug threads - '56 Ford Fairlane, 292 Y block

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by markoxpollo, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Yes I suppose he could pull start it. I was thinking more if he knew if the automatic was any good? Those transmissions if they need work can get expensive. Possibly a engine and trans swap would be his best route. He could remove the trans pan. If there's anything other than fluid in it. Only one place that stuff comes from and that's the clutches are shedding their fibers. I was also thinking about his failure to start. I once owned and drove a 59 Ranchero, 223 six. It became very hard to start. The timing chain was a bit loose. Also it would spit back thru the carb. I changed the timing chain and did a valve job. after that it started as soon as you hit the key. However it soon started burning oil .
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 42,909

    squirrel
    Member

    I've run into a few that would not start, but a fresh set of plugs let them fire right up. Of course, I had to get everything else fixed first (this was on engines that someone else had been monkeying with).

    I've also run into a few that did not have enough compression to run.
     
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  3. Ok if its not the valves causing the low compression. you can mix 90 weight gear oil with STP or any type of motor honey. Heat it up as hot as possible without it catching fire. put two tablespoonfuls thru the spark plug hole reinstall the spark plug and rotate the engine a bit repete on the next cyl. That hot goo will creep down past the compression ring and begin to thicken because the piston and cyl walls are cooler. it makes a temporary seal and will restore compression. My son used to work on motorcycles. and some 4 cyl ones had four carbs. and sometimes a carb would fail and wash down a cyl and it would lose compression and quit firing. and I showed him the trick. It works to get a diesel cyl that has been washed down back to firing also. On a badly worn cyl it will not last very long.
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  4. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 3,127

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I ran into that on a Chevy V6 that had been sitting out under a tarp leaned to one side. Only way it would crank was to put transmission fluid in the cylinders on that side, then crank it. Had almost no compression on one side of the block, 150 psi or better on the other. Water had made it's way into the cylinders through the exhaust ports, no manifold on it, pitting the cylinders. Had to bore it .030 just to get the pits out. Probably not the case here though, sounds like the rings are just worn slap out. Could still try putting something like transmission fluid or like Old Wolf said some STP or Lucas mixed with some oil in the plug holes, then with clean dry plugs try and fire it off. If it does fire off, it'll smoke like a freight train until the excess oil burns out of the cylinder, and then it might run without it, and it might not, depending on how low the compression is.
     
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  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 42,909

    squirrel
    Member

    We still have no idea what's wrong with the engine to make it not start. Could be just about anything at this point...we're waiting for a compression test....then we can move on to spark, fuel, etc.
     
  6. Possibly he should grab the crankshaft pulley and move it back and forth to see how much slack is in the timing chain & gears. If it was mine I would already have pulled the oil pan to be certain the old pickup isn't plugged and the pan full of sludge,. Naw I wouldn't. I would have pulled the engine and trans and swapped it for a FE or some kinda small block. In my hoard I have a 272 block fresh bored to a 292. a steel crank rods & pistons & grooved cam from a 61 F600, a couple sets of C heads new rings and gaskets. And I haven't the least desire to ever build the engine. I had two of the desirable wide flange 4 bbl intakes. Sold them to guys here on the HAMB. shipped one to Calif. cost $75 to ship it.
     
  7. markoxpollo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2014
    Posts: 24

    markoxpollo
    Member
    from Indiana

    Ok, I did the compression test and here are the results:
    1: 135
    2: 135
    3: 135
    4: 150
    5: 150
    6: 145
    7: 135
    8: 150... Then, I squirted some oil in the holes and tested all again and got these #s:

    1: 145
    2: 145
    3: 145
    4: 153
    5: 158
    6: 160
    7: 142
    8: 156
    What do y'all think?
    Also, below is my car I'm working on. Ru3TJkOtR9a9PofgR1LoBA.jpg
     
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  8. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,264

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Those aren't too bad #s, esp. for cold compression. Make sure the valves aren't adjusted too tight.

    Now get it running!
     
  9. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 397

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’d agree with that. You told me in a PM it was running before you did the heads, so I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t run now. Spark and fuel.

    Did you move or remove the distributor for some reason? If so, go there first. Double check everything. On a Yblock, it’s easy to re-install the distributor and end up a tooth off. Has to do with the hex drive to the oil pump.

    I’d guess if you mixed up a plug wire, you’d be trying to start, but get a miss or backfire.

    Next is fuel. You should have a good accelerator pump shot if the carbs got fuel. That can take some cranking when everything is dry. Are you sure it was oil on the wet plugs, not fuel?
     
  10. markoxpollo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2014
    Posts: 24

    markoxpollo
    Member
    from Indiana

    Yes distributor was removed and switched out the points with Pertronix ignition and a Pertronix coil. I may switch back just to see if that’s the issue. I’m getting spark. I rebuilt the carb, but when I was trying to start it, it did misfire and spit back out of the top of the carb. I’m trying to start the car using a remote start button with a toggle on/off switch and noticed after several seconds the coil gets VERY hot. Maybe from all the cranking? How do I know if I’m a tooth or two out on the distributor?


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 397

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Read the Pertronix’s instructions carefully. “Really hot” shouldn’t happen.

    Next item, and I’m trying to be nice here. If you’re “not a mechanic” don’t change more than one thing at a time. The motor ran. You changed the heads. You redid the ignition. You rebuilt the carb. 3 things, and on a Yblock, you don’t need to pull the distributor.

    So, you’ll have to go back and check everything. The carb is the tough one. I’m not an expert on any carb, but a teapot can be very easy to mess up.

    But if it ran before, it’ll run now. Hopefully someone who knows more will chime in.
     
  12. Those tea Pot carbs and the dual advance dist they used didn't work very good back in the day. You can find small base WCFB carter carb that will bolt onto your manifold. or use a adapter. and a 57 or newer dist is much better. you compression is good enuf for it to run. a hot coil might need a resistor.
     
  13. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,801

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    1957 was a big year for the Yblock. In '57 they dumped the Loadomatic and went with a much improved distributor. Also at that time they upgraded to the Holley 1850 or the Ford 2100 carburetor. Both were significant improvements.

    What you think is oil may be an oil/gasoline mix. In short you "may" be flooding it out. More than any other engine I have fooled with.....
    The Yblocks seem to be the very, very sensitive to fuel mixture. The dang things will not hit a lick if it's not just right.:rolleyes:

    Start fresh from scratch. Assume nothing! Get a proper manual!
    Find # 1
    Make sure you have spark. I like points here as they are easier to diagnose and I can pull the cap and see and hear them "pop". With points, if the points are popping and sparking....you have spark. If the points are not popping (audio) or sparking (visual)..... There's no need to go further until they are.
    Petronix.....I have no clue, I have never used them.

    I Prefer to get one running on points for the reasons stated above because that's how I came up with these and I feel it's easier.

    Once you have confirmed good reliable spark ......
    Then move to fuel.

    Time!
    Fire (spark)!
    Fuel !

    It should run.

    Like I said at the top these can be sensitive to fuel mixture but it is essential you have it in time with good spark. Get it in time get good spark....

    Like a parrot......
    Time
    Spark
    Fuel

    Time
    Spark
    Fuel

    Time
    Spark
    Fuel
     
  14. markoxpollo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2014
    Posts: 24

    markoxpollo
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks... Im going to switch out the pertronix back to the original to see if that works. Im also wondering about a bad ground somewhere maybe... Im using an ignition start panel since the motor is sitting in just the frame at this point. I have the solenoid grounding to the battery and the battery to the block. My current hook up using the starting panel is Red wire from ignition switch to BATTERY positive terminal. White wire from switch to COIL positive terminal. Red wire from push button to starter solenoid "S" terminal. Its turing over but not starting. The coil gets VERY hot too. Should the "I" post on the solenoid have a connection to the coil too?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. the I post on the solenoid goes to the coil to give a full 12 volts when cranking. between the battery and the coil you need a resistor. that resistor reduces the voltage so the coil don't overheat.
     
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  16. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,801

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama



    Are you using a ballast resistor?
     
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  17. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,136

    sunbeam
    Member

    Do you have a petronix I or II if you have a one it should have a 3 ohm coil. from what I read.
     
  18. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,665

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    It’s usually just a matter of time before he plays the pull it and replace it with an FE card :D

    I’d be really surprised if there has ever been a Y Block thread that he hasn’t mentioned it in.

    Personally I get a little tired of it but I love Y Blocks so I really don’t care anyway :D
     
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  19. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,264

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Remove the #1 cylinder spark plug, on a Y-block this is the forwardmost spark plug on the "left hand" side, the passenger side. Roll the engine over with socket and wrench on the damper bolt clockwise. With your thumb over the spark plug hole, you'll feel air rushing out when the piston is on the compression stroke. Continue on until the damper pointer and the "O" zero mark on the damper are lined up. This is TDC or ground zero for the engine. Everything timing related is based on this point.

    Your engine looks great, but a real common problem with old engines, the heavy steel outer weight on the damper is bonded with rubber. If the damper is original it is lunched by now and needs replaced or rebuilding. The ring will move off its "clock" or index, and along with it the timing marks are way, way off. So it's important to verify that TDC indicated is actually TDC.

    This is done using a tool called a piston stop.

    Another common error is to stab or install the distributor 180 degrees out, or the #1 piston at TDC - but on the exhaust stroke.

    Assuming the damper is good, when the damper is at #1 cylinder TDC compression, the distributor rotor should be pointing right at the #1 terminal of the distributor cap. The rotor then turns counter clockwise and continues on in firing order 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 make sure they are correct.
     
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  20. Never trust the timing marks on the front pulley or dampner. You find exact top dead center with a piston stop. You remove the porcelain from a spark plug. install a round brass rod aabout a inch long. thread that into the number one spark plug hole. turn the engine by hand until it locks up. mark the position. then reverse direction until it locks up again. Half way between those two lock up points is exact top dead center
     
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  21. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 1,173

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    What I find more amazing is that one of the Chevy guys hasn't said to put a Chevy in it yet. We're 50 posts in that's got to be a record!
     
  22. Myself I never worry about where the rotor is pointing. I simply drop the dist in the hole and turn the engine until the dist seats on the oil pump drive. I then crank until I get compression on number one. Place something in( A long stick) the spark plug hole on top of the piston and by hand turn the engine until I get the piston as far up as it goes. Then I look where the rotor is pointing. That's number one. and I place the plug wires accordingly. leave the dist loose enuf that I can with a bit of pressure move it by hand. And I attempt to start it and might move the dist when im cranking. usually works. A few times ive had to clock the plug wires one hole in the cap. and those few times the engines had slack in the timing chain. Any engine don't know or care where the rotor is pointing. all that matters is that the spark hits the right cyl at the correct time.
     
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  23. My daddy had a old ford truck. the engine was bad. He installed a 4 cyl from a international pickup. He was proud of that. Told folks he had a tractor engine in his truck. that slant 4 did have the same cubes as a H Farmall does. LOL
     
  24. markoxpollo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2014
    Posts: 24

    markoxpollo
    Member
    from Indiana

    No, its not necessary when using with the pertronix electronic ignition.
     
  25. Is the coil shown in the picture above the one recommended by Pertronix for your particular distributor?

    Edit: OK... I read back a few posts and it sounds like you're running the correct coil. Still like the idea of putting the original distributor back in it for a few spins though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  26. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,264

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    You're right, but I didn't want to get off into the weeds with that. He should learn the basic how-to first.

    In fact I think it ought to be running by now.
     
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  27. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,599

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the chain/sprocket set was replaced, remember the Y-block 12 pin rule. (!)
     
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  28. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,136

    sunbeam
    Member

    Also remember to do it with the engine right side up don't ask.
     
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