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Oh how I love my Banger- FEBUARY banger meet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chris, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 844

    Dirtynails
    Member
    from garage

    [​IMG]
    There will be so much ram effect there that you will have to use one of these to prevent the intake gasket from blowing out when you release the throttlew. it will also bring you into the realm of "hi TECH" because it will make that HITECH sound that only hi performance cars make....
    [​IMG]
    :rolleyes::D
     
  2. houseofhotrods
    Joined: Mar 16, 2005
    Posts: 673

    houseofhotrods
    Member

    That's a wicked looking contraption Sam!!! Yer up to your tricks again!!! :D
     
  3. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Bluto-

    You asked about broken rods. In 55 years of fooling with old engines- mostly Ford A&B- I have seen probably a half dozen broken rods. Only one, a long, very light one from a '22 four cylinder Oldsmobile was broken near the wrist pin, and it was BRAZED back together!

    The rest were broken about 2/3rds of the way down, from the wrist pin to the lower end. The last one that I came upon was from a two cylinder Lister diesel that only ran on one. One of the copper oil pressure lines had fatigued and broken and starved the rod bearing farthest from the pump. The rod did not weld itself to the crank, but it had evidently tightened enough to bend the rod, and it buckled in compression. This was a modern design rod, not some spindly thing. The rest were Ford A&B. An English book on automotive engine engineering that I have access to says that rods fail as columns, hinged at both ends, which fail in buckling. From what I remember, all the Ford rods were broken a short way above the big end which supports this theory. If rods failed in tension, they would break at, or just below the wrist pin where the cross sectional area was the least.

    Herb kephart
     
  4. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 844

    Dirtynails
    Member
    from garage

    ..and it would take some serious abuse to break a Lister conrod! :eek:
    On listers,both water and aircooled, I've seen plenty of broken pistons etc and one that bent a rod from hydrualicing when rain water got in the exhaust but never broken rods.
     
  5. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    If I could figure out how the H##L to post pix, I would send a shot of that one- I still have it. You are right- they are stout rods!

    Herb
     
  6. 41woodie
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,038

    41woodie
    Member

    Chris, this suggestion may be considered sacrilegious but how about running a shorty super trapp muffler. The kind with the removable discs. I ran one on my '24 T that was powered by a B-18 Volvo 4 cylinder. You can tune the sound from LOUD to mild and better yet you can tune the power curve, putting the torque where you want it.
     
  7. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    Herb-
    Send them to my email and I can post them for you.... ;)

    J.
     
  8. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,203

    RussTee
    Member

    adapting it to our lake hovercraft as we speak
     
  9. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,203

    RussTee
    Member


    hi just got your note better ask me specifics however i sugest you talk to the english or continental boys about their dropped axles [stock ford there] that would help you out you need the spindles as well
     
  10. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,203

    RussTee
    Member

    i have a millar updraft that makes that look tiny 5 awsum jets its a barrel carb was on a rajo i brought
     

  11. Thanks for the thought, but really not my style :D
     
  12. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Thank you Herb

    That's the feedback I need.

    I'm going to set the 5-main crank in and see what room I hade between the crank pin and bore's bottom.

    The block has no provision for a cam. So we don't have to worry about that

    For those of you that didn't see last month:

    I will not use HAL con rods in this thing. too heavy too short too rare and lastly too old.

    This will get some kind of new rod with new hardware and much smaller pin.

    It's too cold to get out in the barn and get a stock Ford rod and piston out the lay into the block but I will get one and do that too before we go much further in development of this lump. :)
     
  13. kenagain
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 820

    kenagain
    Member
    from so cal

    Looks like a cold 6 pack smile to me. I have designed a lotta good stuff that way and I can vouch for the technical design going on there
    Ken
     
  14. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    I'm getting the same thing on my coupe with the same straight pipe set up as yours. Put them on back in July. Sounds like a Harley taking off down the street, and sounds awesome idleing and when you start to accelerate, it gets SUPER loud and snappy like you said but then gets quieter again at cruising speed. I think mufflers would improve that mid range driving, but I haven't had the guts to put them on yet. I like my coupe loud. I think it drives the neighbors and neighborhood nuts when I drive through though. haha!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Yeah Elrod,
    I'm gonna put some mufflers on it...it sounds good, but at 45+ MPH it just gets loud. It echos on the inside of the car. It does sound neat, but not really what I was going for in that car. I'll get some mufflers on and run another video...may make you change your mind or just plain forget putting mufflers on :D
     
  16. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    Oh, and what I've been working on.... Who said you can't have mechanical brakes and a dropped axle! Reversing the main leaf on a press tonight.

    I'll be debuting the new lowered look on the coupe at the Dallas Autorama next week along with the A-V8 roadster I'm building. More pics to come then but for now a sneak peak.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    Sounds good. I wish we were closer. I'd really love to see both our coupes next to each other at a show. Each time I see your update pictures it blows me away how similar our coupes were before tearing into them. Seeing the two ways to build 'em in a 40s style while still keeping them banger powered is really cool to me.
     
  18. I don't have any photos of my dual exhaust but what I did was 45 both pipes to the center with the mufflers 8" apart then back trying to keep the pipe length's as equal as possible. I used adapters from the headers to use 2" dia. tubing which gives a lower sound in my opinion. I will try to have a video made as the sound is a little different with the light flywheel and 8.5 compression. The Jim Brierley SU1A cam seems to idle with out too much lope. Actually, an old hot rodder who is now a superior court judge described the sound of small pipes as a "Cackle". What he said was " Start it up I love to hear a 4 barrel cackle" I realize the use of 4 barrel dates him. I can remember when they towed this judge's 35 ford to the night street races on old Valley Boulevard in El Monte in the late 40's.
     
  19. HAHA Elrod, I printed off pictures of your exhaust job and showed my guy. I said this looks like the easiest way to run it, and still be able to pull the rear end!!!
    Can't wait to see yours lowered, see what a difference it makes! My Dad is gonna flip over the mechanical brake set up...he wants to lower his 29 roadster so bad...the only thing holding him back is he does not want to change the brakes.

    How do you have your 16" wheels on Model A drums? Did you change the studs??
     
  20. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    I do have a set of juice backing plates that came off a model A and in the long run, I'll most likely be upgrading to juice brakes, and I have your master cyl placement saved on my computer. I like the way you did that set up best out of any others I've seen.

    But I was determined to see if I could run the mechanical brakes before making the switch!

    I didn't have to change the studs. I'm using the Model A lug nuts and there is enough stud sticking out that the rims are mounting just fine. I check them before and after every daily drive and they haven't loosened up yet.

    I did have to grind off the front spindles about an 1/8 of an inch to get the dog dish hubcaps on the rim and not have the spindles dimple them.
     
  21. jerseyboy
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 634

    jerseyboy
    Member

    Thanks John, I'm on the slow (snails pace) plan. I was interested in what size rims your running and what tire sizes as well. Also was there any mods to the springs? I really like the look of the car and was thinking of doing something similair to the Woody.
     
  22. I'm setting up with 32-34 mechanicals. I used 32 front spring perches with the 32 front axle. The rear was a bitch as the 32 rear radius rods attach to the axle housings so I had to cut reliefs into the rear backing plates to attach the "A" radius rods which are inverted as I'm running a Kiwi quick change. And guess what I found out after much thrashing around looking for schematics and tech info. The 32 used the service brakes as the emergency brake so I have devised a flexible cable but might just use a chain to hook them up. Also needed to modify the brake rods as "A" rears are now too long.
     
  23. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    Boy, that tab coming off the brake control looks familiar! (hmm, where have I seen that setup before? :rolleyes:;)

    Let me know how that works out and holds up. I had thought about just going ahead and doing that for my roadster, but of course found the '32 perches instead of using the A perches with the '32 axle. All worked out well.
     
  24. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    Did you make some kind of tab like on my car? I haven't seen anything on the HAMB before like it.

    Actually The Fidgiter came up with the idea one evening at home. This is the basic set up and we added the gusset once we saw them on the car.

    And those aren't Model A perches...

    [​IMG]
     
  25. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    16" wheels on Model A drums will fit up fine. No isuues. They bolt right up.... no adjustments needed. I know, my '29 roadster is running 16" Ford spokes.
    [​IMG]

    16 wheels on Model A hubs and drums. Front is a '32 axle with '32 perches... perches were heated just under the eye where the brake control goes into the perch to keep the setup level and evened out.


    Elrod is fabbing up tabs to take up the space that is left when two different pieces are used, which leaves a void,... you need to bridge it, so, as our one original club member did back in the late 1930s, he's making a tab to bridge the gap. (he and I talked at some length about this setup last year, neat to see he's trying it out.)
    [​IMG]


    The only difference is that our man Carl used "A" spring perches and welded on the tab to bridge the gap, where I found a set of '32 perches and went with those as there is a lot of stress on that area, and Carl was using his car at that time only for racing, so we weren't sure how the setup would hold up on a daily driver. I asked Carl what he thought of it, he said using the '32 perches would have been what he would have used, but must not have had them at the time.
     
  26. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,895

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    not much to add this month . but i am close , very close !!! steve
     
  27. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    I don't remember talking at length about that last year... and didn't see any PMs in my box from you when I looked back at my 2007s.. But I'm glad to see that I'm using something that the old timers did back in the day. I did find your old post though. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250420&highlight=perch

    My axle is a stretched and 4 inch dropped A axle.

    Yours is a stock late 32 - 34 axle set up with Model A wishbones and Model A spindles.
    [​IMG]



    I wanted an even lower stance which required the building of the tab. I just didn't want to just do a tab on one side of the perch though. I was talking with The Fidgiter and he came up with the design you see above which goes around the entire perch mounting bolt and still makes the nut at top at the same alignment as the original hole in the perch.

    Did a lot more improvement on it in the garage after seeing how it fit and it's VERY stout. I don't think there is going to be a problem with it ever breaking off. It only sees stress when you pull back on the brake rod.

    Thanks for posting the old picture CTK. And those are Model A perches, Model A brake shafts and an axle that is probably dropped no more than 2 inches.
     
  28. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    Yes I know your setup is all '32, perches and all.

    From your first photo, the tab looks welded on from belhind, but I see now with the close up photo here that its a tab that is "bolt-on" rather than "weld-on"....

    I was simply referring to the various talks we had back and forth about the setup on the '29 Cullen roadster, where I was thinking of doing what he had done and weld a tab on the control arm, but when all was said and done I found a set of nice '32 perches and went that route,.... as mentioned.

    Hence the reason I said "that looks familiar..."
     
  29. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    Elrod-

    Maybe it was another fellow??... could have sworn you were the guy who sent me several photos of your stock '32 chassis with the mechanical brake setup? Hmm,... maybe it was another fellow??
     
  30. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    Yeah. I definitely wouldn't say I'm the first person ever to do this, but I did get many people say it couldn't be done. It became kind of a challenge for me to figure out. I was pretty jealous when Fidgiter sends me an email after looking at it for one day with something he already made in his garage after leaving my house 2 hours prior. heh!
     

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