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Hot Rods October Banger Meet on the Model T Centennial!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hotrodfil, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. 1930 vicky
    Joined: Nov 12, 2006
    Posts: 76

    1930 vicky
    Member
    from England,UK

    Simon,
    Belcher engineering had a set of five part worns for sale when we were down there the other weekend £150-00 I think.
    Their no is 01379 890913 ask for Gary.
     
  2. Michael_e
    Joined: Mar 15, 2005
    Posts: 428

    Michael_e
    Member

    In last month's Banger thread I got a Model T frame and a Model A motor with trans for a whopping total of $150. T frame had original real axle & spring and front axle & spring. Now this month i was able to swap the Model T rear axle for 3 21 inch wheels. No cost there. Got 4 used 21 inch tires and 4 used but in really great, almost new, 21 inch tubes for free at Bert's Model A here in Denver. Got tires and tubes free. Found a Model A rear axle, no brake drums or backing plates and no radius rods or ring & pinion, but did have 2 axles in great shape for $25, also at Bert's. I found a Model A front axle i had forgot about in the loft of my garage. Cost = $0. Doing good so far. That 8 foot steel tube cost me the most, $72.68. That will be used for a new front cross member and various other frame mods. And i got that 25/26 Chevy roadsteer cowl in another deal several years ago. Guessing it was $50 out of the total deal back then. So, this month's additions to the speedster project come up to $147.68 and a total of $297.68. Looking for ideas on cheap seats and something to complete the rear bodywork, ideas anyone??? Forgot to add, the steering wheel was a swap meet freebee and the steering column is a mop stick.
     

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  3. VanHorton
    Joined: Apr 7, 2007
    Posts: 585

    VanHorton
    Member

    looks good micheal. For the rear of the body try narrowing down a 40's or 50's hood or trunk... One guy on here split a truck hood and laid them together bottom to bottom and that looked pretty cool. use your imagination haha.
     
  4. Will Kimble
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    Will Kimble
    Member

    Had a pickin' party at my Dad's on Saturday, and our friend James Rogers (http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/) came down from Asheville in his '31 slant window cabriolet. Here is James leaning on the Manx (he built my B engine) and my Dad's coupe in the background.

    [​IMG]

    Here is James' cabriolet, the engine was about a week old and sounded strong (counterbalanced crank, lightened flywheel, Brierley cam)!

    [​IMG]

    Got my license plate and stop light mounted, but still not wired up...

    [​IMG]

    I got to drive the car a lot on the backroads, it is running well but I uncovered a couple problems. The used rearend has been getting worse & worse (awful gear whine when you let off the gas in 2nd & 3rd), it is finally bad enough that I am going to have to do something about it before I go any further. I will probably have another Model A rearend rebuilt with a 3.54 gear, and swap them out. Still weighing my options and counting my change...

    Also developed a big oil leak on the passenger side of the engine, initially thought it was coming from the oil pan but turned out to be the fuel pump! The fulcrum pin for the arm that rides on the cam worked loose and almost came out, oil was squirting out one of the holes for the pin. Luckily the pin stayed in place, which kept the guts of the fuel pump out of the crankcase. :) I am not sure what I am missing (or what I lost...), what holds that pin in place?

    Here's a shot of the engine in its current configuration (fuel filter on frame rail, B fuel pump, medium Stelling & Hellings air cleaner). You can see the oil slick as well as the fulcrum pin on the fuel pump sticking out. I am planning to replace the rubber lines once I settle on the final setup, still might go to an electric fuel pump (see above...) and will probably replace my leaky 94 with a new 97 once I have the funds.

    [​IMG]

    Highlight of the weekend was taking my daughter and my nieces/nephew for rides, hopefully there are a couple of future hotrodders here. The two on the far left are mine...

    [​IMG]

    Best wishes,
    Will Kimble
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  5. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,997

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Ha ha...five up front! I knew hot rods could be practical!
    Great pics, Will. The car is looking brilliant.
     
  6. Michael_e
    Joined: Mar 15, 2005
    Posts: 428

    Michael_e
    Member

    Just to follow this up a little, does anyone have pictures where someone used rear pickup fenders to make a speedster nose or like said above, hood or trunk to make rear speedster body work? Thanks!
     
  7. VanHorton
    Joined: Apr 7, 2007
    Posts: 585

    VanHorton
    Member


    Heres what I've been working on, still needs some work, and narrowed a little more with some taper.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and here is some inspiration
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. BangerMatt
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 465

    BangerMatt
    Member

    Here's mine, 1940 Buick hood held on with screws to allow access to the fuel tank/battery/fuel pump underneath.

    Ignore the ugly guy in the driver's seat, I have no idea who he is.

    On a side note, I'm starting to make another around a rebuilt B engine I picked up at Hershey, and this will most likely become my father's and I'll have the new and faster one . .
     

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  9. jerseyboy
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 634

    jerseyboy
    Member

    Matt, that speedster is lookin' good!

    Talkin' about nice speedster tails, here is one I came across on the net. Looks like they did a real nice job blending the hood into the body:cool:.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. firerod
    Joined: Jan 20, 2008
    Posts: 556

    firerod
    Member

    I was out scrounging for parts for my "T" Touring/ A chassis project, and ran across a nice dual updraft intake manifold. Anyone out there ever use one? I am going to run the stock engine for now but would like to hop it up a little someday. I liked the way the dual looked. Would I be better off running a single down draft? I should have pictures to post of the project in the November meet.
     
  11. Michael_e
    Joined: Mar 15, 2005
    Posts: 428

    Michael_e
    Member

    VanHorton, BangerMatt, & JerseyBoy, now that is what i'm looking for!!! Lot's of ideas and like was said - inspiration. Thanks guys. Anyone else got these sorta pics?

    Thanks
     
  12. Jerseyboy,

    Do you have any more pics of the A speedster?

    You've got my imagination going...
     
  13. jerseyboy
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 634

    jerseyboy
    Member

    Mac, here is the link to the site I got the picture from. It's about a garage in Kansas.
    http://www.kansastravel.org/grandpasoldfordgarage.htm
     
  14. Thank you sir!

    That's a neat article- seems like our kinda guy, lookking at what he has designed and built (except for the wrought iron roadster:D).
     
  15. Will Kimble
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    Will Kimble
    Member

    Update on the Model B fuel pump - the fulcrum pin should have a "C" clip on each end to hold it in place. I am not sure what is in mine or how it was supposed to work, it has a head on one end and ends flush with the pump on the other. Dave Renner was a huge help and is sending me the proper pin & clips. In case you aren't familiar with Dave (I wasn't...), here is a link to his website:

    http://www.rennerscorner.com/index.html

    Dave makes and sells the kits to rebuild B fuel pumps, and also sells rebuilt B fuel pumps both outright and on exchange. He also rebuilds B distributors as well as a bunch of other stuff, check it out. He will be my first stop the next time I need help with this stuff.

    Will Kimble
    www.kimblemandolins.com
     
  16. jerseyboy
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 634

    jerseyboy
    Member

    Will,

    Yeah the pin set up you had was a later fix. I have several pumps, and one had the peaned over end with a washer. The original method is the two C-clips on each end. I personally like the C-clips, easier to work with.

    I also like Mr. Renners establishment, he's got B-stuff others don't.

    Mac, your welcome:D.
     
  17. BangerMatt
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 465

    BangerMatt
    Member

    Model B fuel pump question:

    Has anyone found any other fuel pump that could be used as a replacement for the stock B pump that is still available aftermarket?

    I bought a bunch of random parts the other day and with it was a 46-48 Plymouth fuel pump. The boss matches the one on the block, and the lever seems to match the location of the fuel pump lobe on the B cam. Could this possibly be a design fluke or am I missing something basic?
     
  18. donrodin
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    donrodin
    Member

    Hey guys, I'm new to posting on here, have been reading for a while though, my name is Don i'm 21 years old and i looooove bangers!!! i drive a 30' A Tudor almost daily, i have worked over the engine a little (paint touch up, high comp. head, leakless wp, new gaskets, distributor, ect.) but aaanyways, you know how you always here about some guy gettin this killer deal on a car or engine, well i was just "complaining" to a buddy of mine the other day about how it would be nice if i could "barn find" something..... well, about 2 days later i happen to be looking at craigslist and come across an ad that says 'model A motor and transmission $250'... well i'm currently building an A Speedster to sell, to fund my A Roadster i'll be building, so i have been on the lookout for a runnin motor and trans.... i click on it and scroll down to see a pic of not only a model B motor but a model b motor with an original Super Winfield high comp. head!!!!!! i was pretty excited to say the least but it was posted a month earlier.... well i called the guy and it was still for sale so that weekend i drove down to indy to get it.... i got a B engine with stainless valves, 32' crank (so it's unbalanced), stock B cam, and the Super Winfield (with no corrosion), and a finned valve cover, plus the 32' tranny for $250, i think i did alright on that deal... what do you guys think?
     
  19. donrodin
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    donrodin
    Member

    here are a couple pics of the B motor.... also, have any of you guys seen the grinding on the valve side of the cylinder, as pictured, before... and if so what does it do?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Now that is interesting and a great score as well.

    The grinding is an attempt to "relieve" the block just like what is done on the Flatty V8's.
    It doesn't really work on a banger as the valves are flat to the block unlike the 8's where the valves are sunken in.

    Always thought there wasn't enough metal in that area to grind it back that much.

    What else has been done to that engine? Thats some hefty work for just a stocker with a Winfield.
     
  21. donrodin
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    donrodin
    Member

    ok, that makes sense. well, as far as i can tell nothing else has been done, it didnt have any rods or pistons in it when i got it and the cam appears to be stock.. the cylinder bore also measured near stock. i was thinking maybe it was a work in progress, they just hadnt finished the bottom end yet... but it had been running at some point because the combustion chambers in the head have some carbon build up. but there is no relief cut for the piston pop up.... what can you do to eliminate the piston pop up? cuz i really dont want to go cuttin on that head.
     
  22. You can run some piston pop-up with a head with no relief cut in it. Your tolerance is the gasket.
    I believe the gasket gives about 0.040" when compressed but you'll have to check that. On a standard piston you can safely run about 0.020" of pop-up or 0.030" if your feeling brave, but again double check that as I'm going from memory!

    I've got 0.010" of pop-up on my piston with no relief on the head. I've got less pop-up because I have forged pistons which will grow more than than conventional pistons.
     
  23. You can find the compression thickness from the distributor or directly from the manufacturer, they do vary from gasket to gasket or maybe I should say manufacturer to manufacturer I have run with as much as .025 popup with no flycut. With every thing stock there is not much popup but over the years blocks are surfaced and as an example my "A" block with new J&E pistons had .032 popup this with new rods and the pistons accurately machined. This meant that the block had been theoretically resurfaced at least .027 allowing for a machining tolerance of +or -.005 ( this is a guess as to Ford tolerance's) One more thing is that I once had mains poured and the bearing bores were out of line by .017 vertically and off from parallel about .008.
    J&E requires min .040 clearance. Jay Steele ( Taylor Engine ) told me that a SBC piston can grow .035. I don't think a warmed over "A" would have that problem. I have run a mildly modified engine with only .025 clearance. I don't recommend this but I did it mainly because I didn't think to check the clearance when I put it together.
     
  24. donrodin
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    donrodin
    Member

    thanks a ton guys, i'll have to get some rods and jugs in her and see how far they popup.. i'm guessing it should be ok, seeing as how it was running before but i'll be sure to check again... i have learned alot in a couple years but still have much to learn so if any of you guys have some interesting tech articles or books i might be interested in i'd be grateful if you would send them my way, my e-mail is donlafin@aol.com... thanks again!
     
  25. VNCduke
    Joined: Nov 22, 2007
    Posts: 659

    VNCduke
    Member
    from Washougal

    I have sorta a banger style question.

    How in the heck do you adjust mechanical brakes the right way?? my brakes feel sorta squishy and the rods have tons of slack..
     
  26. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I always cut a corner off the gasket to check it after torque. You cn then use a low-tech feeler gauge!

    Don't forget that pistons get carbon on top. .040 CAN GET REAL TIGHT!

    Before you put the head on put the plugs in and make sure you have no plug threads showing. Or ones in the head! ANY Thread will glow and you'll have a hot spot making correct ignition timing impossable.

    Also make sure there are no sharp edges anywhere. Same problem as threads showing!

    Per-ignition or poor spark control BREAKS crankshafts too!!!!!
     
  27. hotrodtom
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 231

    hotrodtom
    Member

    The key to good mechanicals is getting all the slop out of the linkages. Clevis pins, actuating arms, balance shafts, etc. I think there are seven points on each wheel for free play to add up. .015 clearance in each one can easily add up to an extra 3/4" play at the pedal. Get a copy of Les Andrews' Model A Mechanics Handbook, available at all Model A suppliers like Snyders, Brattons, Mike's, etc. The front actuating arms should point forward at a 15deg angle at rest. There are "pills" available to take up the wear from the actuating rods and restore that angle. Good Model A mechanicals should be able to lock up all 4 at 50mph. BTW, an easy upgrade for the mechanicals is Flathead Ted's brake floaters -- makes 'em into servo-action bendix style and reduces pedal effort.
    If you have "spongy" feel, you may have bent brake rods that are straightening back out under tension. Don't laugh, it happens.
    Fearless
     
  28. One of the most important points is that the shoes must be centered to the axle, you can make a simple centering tool or buy one from sources such as Bratton's. The tool is rotated on the bearing surface and shows if the shoes are centered to the bearing or axle. I made mine to fit the rear and bushed it down for the front "Flat head Ted" makes locating pins for the rear that are stepped and can be rotated to center rear brakes. The old method is to bend the roller track to center the shoes. I emailed the final adjusting instruction sheet this AM. If any one else would like a copy pm me your email.
     
  29. Jonny69
    Joined: Jul 24, 2007
    Posts: 275

    Jonny69
    Member
    from England

    Putting the stock inlet and exhaust back on mine to encourage longevity. I figure detuned I won't be able to break it so quickly :D

    Unfortunately managed to shear the mushroom off the end just before I swapped it off so I've lashed it back on with a bit of mig weld. General consensus is it's not going to last long so hopefully it'll hold out long enough to find another manifold locally.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    (Don't worry, she's out - and yes, I really should clean the oven)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  30. d_Seymour
    Joined: Sep 28, 2006
    Posts: 68

    d_Seymour
    Member
    from Michigan

    The wind is getting colder here and it may be time to pull the banger motor out of the 29 roadster for a refreshing. I am exlporing my options investigating pressurized center main. COULD USE HELP ARE THERE ANY GOOD WEBSITE TO USE AS A REFERENCE GUIDE.
    Picked up a 87 S10 T5 four wheel trans. Will this ratio surfice. Have alead on a 86 jeep CJ T5. which is the better choice. When will the torque tube adaptor be available.
     

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