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Technical ***October 2020 Banger Meet Thread - Spooky Month & Year***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Got that stuck steering wheel loose off the shaft. Bet it's the first time off since Henrys crew installed it. 1603835234541.jpeg

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,607

    97
    Member

    Mean piston speed is what you are talking about , if it was just piston speed you would be talking about zero twice every revolution , and IMHO when the piston speed is zero , everything is at it's biggest risk!
     
  3. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 817

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    What's the deal with both Brierley (My Personal Savior) and Neilson both being . . . wait . . . wait . . . Mazda racers?
     
  4. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    Stan,
    You completely missed the Briggs and Strap-on period. That was fun............
    J
     
    Jet96 likes this.
  5. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Talking improved ports...one intake for each cylinder; improving intake ports (shorter and straighter) for better flow, thereby improving Fords basic B output HP is done with two or more ways. Maybe best is full flow OHV head(s). Next might be reconfigure the A/ B blk to have intake for each cyl. While at it , make more direct intake flow. The old timer racer/builders/machinist used this method, I’ve been informed , successfully. LOT of work taking big brain skills. Was this method worth effort , dont know ?
    Sadly, most of old timers didn't leave written instruction(s) of their methods, successes and/ or experiences.
    More valves /cams worked for more power, but more complicated ....how durable/reliable ?
    Which method used is a personal choice.
    IMO, more direct intakes full crossflow ohv bigger intake valves with best comb chamber design, will pay best HP return for the $.
    The question is... where to get such head !
    The combustion chamber that Neilson shows on that head... looks real good to me.
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  6. Agreed!

    I can't claim to be "The Brightest Bulb in the Chandelier"; but I would add to the above list: that a complete flow design includes consideration of "The Reverse Impulse" to the intake ports and manifold. Time and time again, I see a log manifold (mostly a cast aftermarket item) that doesn't have end caps that take up the negative pressure. Fuel injection obviates the need of such things! The older boys also told me that polishing intake ports can cause a laminar flow; a barrier that's good for airfoil lift on aircraft, but inhibits intake flow due to something called "Parasitic Drag"). They said that the ports should be smooth; but bead blasted! Also they preached that exhaust systems should not be ignored. Size and lengths of the primaries to a collector should be fitted to power and torque characteristics of the engine. The number an firing order of the engine's cylinders will also be a consideration! Example: my engine SHOULD have 44" primaries, collected from cylinders 1 & 2; then at the 44" mark, collected with 3 & 4. (But mine, on my engine, are NOT)

    Who are "The Older Boys"! Two were contemporaries of each other (and sometime mentors to me): My uncle, John McKusick, a Tool & Die maker; and producer of Stu-V Speed Equipt. The other was Art Sparks. Sparks along with Ed Winfield pioneered the "Two Up/Two Down" Model T engine in the 20's! Mr. Sparks produced a Supercharged 336 C.I.D. DOHC engine that in 1938 pushed his built race car to break all records at Indy. A smaller version of this engine was in the 1946 winning car. Later Sparks built the 1st forged pistons; Forge-True! Neither of the two had a "Flow Bench"

    Sir Harry Ricardo began research on the Internal Combustion Engine around the turn of the 19th to 20th Century. He wrote volumes outlining his work. You can get the equation used to calculate the design of you particular engine. Below is the Sparks-Thorne "Little Six"! 183 C.I.D. Supercharged, sister to the 1946 winning car at Indy!
    Sspark-thorne-little-six-rda3818.jpg
     
  7. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    John,
    explain why the Winfield "two up/two down" was so much of an improvement. It really is interesting.

    Also, I agree Art Sparks was good, it is too bad only two of those heads were ever made. I was looking at one recently, too bad it is so cracked up. And, you probably cannot tell, but that is the head in the avatar.

    There will soon be a very good head coming out, 4 port and a good combustion chamber.

    J

    PS, Hardtimes, that head is not so good, streetable yes, not a race head.
     
  8. The two, Ed Winfield and Art Sparks; came up with the "Two up/Two down" crank and timing about the same time. I don't know if they collaborated! They lived a worked just a few miles apart, Ed lived and worked at his mother's house in La Canada; and Art lived and taught auto and machine shop at Glendale high school. They both were hot rodders and racers. Art had quit driving after the car he built flipped over at a dirt track out in Banning. From then on he hired drivers.

    The "Two up/Two down" eliminates the having two intake valves open at the same time; as is with the crank and firing order of our ford "Bangers" 1243! A friend of mine. Rick Rawlins, has a reconstruction of the Winfield car and engine. It IS faster and it has a different sound! The Sparks engine I last knew was somewhere in the San Fernando valley in a hot rod owned by Bud Pagiluisi (I think that's how it's spelled).
     
    GuyW likes this.
  9. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    There is a picture in one of the last few FAST publications. It shows Rick Rawlins , and two other gentlemen.... one of which is the man who re-created the famous Winfield 2up/2down. He said that that engine SHOOK hard at idle and had an odd sound running.
    At higher rpm the engine ran smoother.
    For racing only , or highway use ?
    I heard an old timer story that Winfield drove this engine to a race.... down the ‘grapevine’ to Bakersfield. With a cop trying to catch up to him and couldn’t for many miles due to the high speed that Winfield maintained. True or false ? Depends on how well that 2up/2down ran ...my guess.
    BTW...that builder in that picture, is my mentor /builder. Nice guy...he says 250hp !
    Who am I to argue the 2up/2down builder ?
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  10. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 428

    guitarguy
    Member

    That was written in an article by the late Chris Egsgaard about Winfield. I was trying to post the article, but having trouble. Will try later.

    In the mean time, here is a link to Les Schubert in Canada doing a 2 up 2 down on a T engine:
    https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16746
     
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  11. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    Love the crosby clips...why chew up the wheel :)
     
  12. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    Well, yes, the two up/two down does sound different, mainly because the four cylinders are getting an equal charge of fuel and air. Our ran pretty good, had some port wall issues and stopped, filled the ports and put on a 4 port Cragar from Dan Price. Of course we modified the crap out of it.

    This one didn't shake all that hard, I suppose the reduced counter weight was a consideration.

    IMG_0311.JPG
     
  13. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,129

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    amazing john ........... simply amazing
     
  14. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 428

    guitarguy
    Member

    I have a question, I see the middle mains are pressure fed, are the front and rear mains also?
     
  15. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    Yes, you are looking at #2 and #4, fed from bottom of girdle.
    1,3,5 (front center rear ) are fed from the top in the block.

    J
     
  16. Who's girdle is that? Yours?
     
  17. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    Yes, this was one of the first, on gen 3 now.
    Good in stock, John
     
  18. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Notice the five (5) mains !
    Wondering what type blk (B?) used here ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    Old Dawg likes this.
  19. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    Yes, "B" block, "A" block is too much work to get advantage of this.

    J
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  20. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I've got some catching up to do. I was loosing hope that the effort to go fast had left us. (channeling Bluto)

    .

    .
     
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  21. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,208

    RussTee
    Member

    Dan once you have your new block there will be no stopping you cant wait to see what ou come up with haha be nice to see a hidden Hal 2 cam appear love to see a modern build with one of those.
     
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  22. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,177

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    B883BFFE-7CC2-4749-9CC9-D5D26529BA8D.jpeg I hate to shift the thread to low-tech... Went out looking for leaf piles to kill tonight, roadster is running absolutely mint! Might get my sweetie to go out in it on Halloween, this will be the first year in about 15 that it's supposed to be nice and not 10° and 40 mph winds!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    winduptoy, Old Dawg and Mikko_ like this.
  23. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,320

    noboD
    Member

    AND there's a full moon.
     
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  24. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 895

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Also a blue moon... second full moon in a calendar month.
     
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  25. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 72

    PhredH

    Enjoy! Bangers love the cool night air.
     
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  26. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    Im with ya, gonna rip it up this evening myself.. hangar1.jpg
     
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  27. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    gotta run the junk..the wife? no...the 4 year old grandson? everytime I go..
     
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  28. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 361

    Jiminy
    Member

    Priceless.
     
  29. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    You know it brother..
     
  30. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 361

    Jiminy
    Member

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