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Technical ***October 2020 Banger Meet Thread - Spooky Month & Year***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. So these last few days I've been researching oiling options for the block. I've recently found out about this Dan Price high flow oil pump.

    I notice it's made for the B block. Does anyone know what the function of the B Fuel pump pass through is for?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 464

    brjnelson
    Member

    I think that’s to get the oil to a filter, and then it gets fed into another plumbing system or the oil galley



    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

  3. Here's the other side of it. Waiting for my brierly book to come into the mail before I do anything.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Today was Dyno day. I set this up awhile ago and I've been totally consumed with taking care of my elderly folks. A brother made it here from out of town and I was able to do this. 4 bangers on a chassis Dyno today. Did a little tuning but I've concluded some things.
    First one; 29 Roadster with a B block.
    I did a lot of intake port work and it has 1.650" intake and stock exhaust. B grind cam. Riley cast iron head. It's a flathead. 5.5:1 compression .020" over and flat top piston, flush with the deck. A Holly 94 and an unmarked aluminum intake. Stock exhaust.
    Mallory single point and 28 degrees total advance I believe at 2600 rpm

    Real respectable in my book
    I attached a photo of the head. No heart shaped combustion chamber.

    IMG_20201007_094604636.jpeg IMG_20201007_095159201.jpeg IMG_20201007_094618971.jpeg 1602114511444.jpeg

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  5. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I see the photo of the head didn't attach...
    DSC02851.JPG DSC02852.JPG
     
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  6. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The second run was the Vicky. IMG_20201007_100536535_TOP.jpeg IMG_20201007_102120914.jpeg 1602115382086.jpeg
    I was disappointed with this but I wanted to find out.
    This is a Cragar/Miller OHV and I can't tune it. It was real obvious that it has some problems and I've concluded it is the cam. It has 2:1 rockers and a .478 lift...but the overlap is killing it and no duration. It is a flathead cam. I have a Cragar grind for an OHV on the way but I did some tuning and the biggest improvement was the elimination of the power valves. It had 70's in it and I didn't have two smaller ones. It has the new Stromberg 81's on it
    The best pull was actually 67HP and that was with the air cleaners off after this one but I didn't get that print out. It will get a re-do after the new cam.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  7. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The third run was the '29 with the Schofield/Miller OHV I am happy with this but not tickled like the Riley headed engine. There is room for improvement and I know where to go now. I bet that we would have picked up some if I dropped the exhaust for instance. It is a little fat and if it was leaned out some...but I'm getting ready to go to a lower elevation so not now. The AFR was real, real consistent with original 81's and I have an EE1 base on one of them. Now I know
    IMG_20201007_140127275.jpeg 1602116235934.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
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  8. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Lion head A engine on the '31 Cabriolet with a Holly 94 just ran out of gas on a pull. I'm thinking that the carb is crapped up and it started acting like it never has on the way back home....just ran out of day.
    It did 50 HP with 120 ftlbs of torque at 2190 RPM before if fell apart. Isn't worth showing the chart, but that is why you take them.
     
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  9. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    Knowing what you want out of the car is very important. There is a big difference between racing and having fun on the street with a hopped up model A.
     
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  10. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 193

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    Made a cover for the fuel pump mounting hole since I will be running an electric pump.
    I did also mock up the intake and exhaust manifold.

    thumbnail_IMG_0086.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  11. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 65

    poshdbs
    Member

    This is the outside of my Dan Price built B block.
    $_57-1.JPG
     
  12. Thank you for posting this! I was posting earlier about the dan price oil pump and this answered my question where the fuel block port outputs to. After it goes through the filter, where does it go to?
     
  13. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 65

    poshdbs
    Member

    The horizontal oil passage behind the cover. Note the two brass plugs each end. One will be used to oil the OHV head and the other a pressure gauge.
     
  14. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,177

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    @winduptoy thanks for all that info-
    There's precious little real world dyno info on the old 4-barrels. All I know is they run better than they have a right to and I'm the ONLY guy with one at cruise night!
     
  15. Savage Coupe
    Joined: Jun 20, 2020
    Posts: 17

    Savage Coupe
    Member
    from Washington

    06BD7ED8-E4BC-4B77-BCB6-98E76F31BED9.png Wanted M-6880-A50 90* Oil Filter Adapter. I’ve tried to order from Summit, Jegs, MACS/Ecklers, Snyder’s and several other Pony/ Ford parts websites. Hoping someone might have a extra or un-used one kicking around? Please let me know would be a great help!

    Thanks,
    Hance.
     
  16. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,177

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    CDFF1DC4-BD26-40AE-B724-65826D6DEBD1.jpeg Just in from Thursday cruise night!
     
  17. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,607

    97
    Member

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  18. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 1,021

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Cool link for the dyno testing
     
  19. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,177

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    @97 Sure, I've read the Piranio's dyno sheets, but that's nearly all of the known dyno runs on the 4 bangers. And it has some interesting nuggets. Our UK friends have lots more real world hp numbers than we do. I was just glad Larry took the time to post his results (good or otherwise). I thought it was interesting.
    Makes me re-think how to go about building a flathead Bonneville engine for my roadster lol
     
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  20. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey 97,
    Piranios dyno is special, in that it actually can print out (for posterity) the data that it shows.
    Believe it or not....that is not the dyno norm !
    I think that most believe the opposite when they think of having to use a dyno. I know I did.
     
  21. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,840

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I emailed maybe last September , Piranios about model B parts as we were going to be in the area in October. Got a somewhat terse reply , somewhat along the lines of “ we don’t do B stuff so have nothing of interest for you” . Ok crossed them off our to visit list.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
  22. 64gal
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Posts: 146

    64gal
    Member

     
  23. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 507

    railcarmover

    That filter adapter is scarce. Dyno? nice but why? Windup knew his Vicky had an issue from feel,the dyno just proved it..My point isn't to criticize, and dyno's have their place,properly calibrated and maintained they are valuable to racers and Bonneville guys..but for street applications I don't see the need personally,just drive it and tweak till it feels good. When horsepower numbers come up in a discussion I take it with a grain of salt,most are guesstimates from the part advertisement.
     
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  24. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,129

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    have you bought anything that just bolts on without making it fit ?
     
  25. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,557

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    I've done the Speedster Reunion chassis dyno runs in Lincoln three different times with two different cars. Got 59 HP at 3200 RPM on the CCPU with a B engine, CRAGAR head and all of usual speed equipment. The Zipper is a '31 with a Brumfield Super head and turned 60HP at 3500 RPM. Those numbers are feel good and justify all the money you spent to take a 40 HP engine at the flywheel and add 50% at the rear wheels!

    winduptoy....what's the deal on the double pully?[
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
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  26. Sorry for taking so long to reply! I've found that the advantages of a 5 main "Banger" are primarily strength and longevity! Strength in that you are required to acquire and install a modern "Made-For-Purpose" crank. Thus you get longevity as it doesn't break every once in a while! (I've broken three!) To attain a 5 main you have a choice of using a girdle; or a 5 main block. Finished girdles are hard to come by. Having one machined is expensive! 5 main blocks are around. Donovan's Model D aluminum has been around for years (also that's primarily why Pirano's gave you "The Cold Shoulder"; they're a major dealer of Donovan's) But most of "The Regulators" won't let you run them in their events! Over the years if you run your modified Model A or B persistently over a regimen between 2500 rpm to 3000 rpm (or more). you'll probably brake enough cranks to make it cheaper to had put that extra $ and effort to build a 5 main engine!
     
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  27. When I first got this engine, I thought it had 5 main bearings and 5 cam bearings, turns out I was wrong and it just has 5 cam bearings!
     
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  28. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,169

    johnneilson
    Member

    I have been around dynos all my life, many different types and sizes. I can tell you, for ease and flexibility a chassis dyno is probably the best option. I see more of them around and it simplifies the complication of all the required systems to make a motor run.
    The other observation I will make is that even though the HP/Tq formula is very simple, it is the "correction" factors that cause issues. I use a waterbrake direct absorber with no correction for my references. This may be a subject of debate, for my purposes it just works the best. If asked to compare numbers, mine will always be on the low side, but true HP/Tq values.

    IMHO, it is better show the performance by out running someone than to compare sheets of paper............
     
  29. Yup!
    A lot of the later versions of the Model B had 5 main cams! If you'll note any of the A and B cams are of a very, very small cross section! The late Jay Steel used to regale seminar participants by breaking one with his bare hands! So be careful not to drop one. For the 3 main crank: if you're going to modify an engine (particularly raise the compression) you should put a Harmonic Damper of the nose of the crank. This would tend to "Damp" the ubiquitous harmonic near the rear main! I say "tend" because it doesn't solve the problem completely! See my post at the first of his month, where my friend Max McLain had his crank break a the RPM Nationals. He had a damper on his beautiful engine. There aren't any off the shelf dampers. An SBC damper can be modified to fit an A or B engine!
     
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  30. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks a lot like what Jeep uses on it's 4.0 L inline 6.
    Try pick-a-part for it
     

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