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October 2010 Banger meet OOOO Scary

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Bearing Burner
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 866

    Bearing Burner
    Member
    from W. MA

    Does any know of a source for a metal timing gear for a Plymouth PB?
     
  2. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    Update to the troubleshooting of my Riley Two Port engine that started and now does not want to: tonite I removed the side cover on thr engine and had my son turn the engine over by hand. Sure enough the #1 and #4 exhaust valves were not moving. I sprayed some Marvel mystery oil on the two lifter and also on the botton of the valve stems. The #4 began to move up and down normally.:) #1 lifter moved up and down very smoothly but the exhaust valve remained up. :confused: The lifter moved up and down to meet it but it just stayed in the up position. This is not good. What might you all suggest.

    1) pull the heavy Riley head again (did it once to replace the head gasket)
    2) Spray something (maybe more Marvel Mystery oil) into the spark plug hole, soak for a day or so and hope for the best
    or
    3) ???
     
  3. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    More things learned as I could not well enough alone tonite: I redid the compression checks and found the following:

    1) 0#
    2) 100#
    3) 100#
    4) 0#

    The I took off each of the top Riley valave covers to see if all was ok on the intake valve side. I removed the front and all looked OK and as I tuned the engie over by habd everything went up and down.

    I went to remove the rear Riley valve cover and as I took off the top nut and moved the cover I heard a springy sound. Took the cover off and alll looked good and moved OK, but the initial sound caused me to pause.

    I redid the compression checks and found the following:

    1) 0#
    2) 100#
    3) 100#
    4) 90#:)

    At least now I have three of the 4 cyclinders with compression. I am still puzzled on what to do before I conceed and lift the OHV head again to look at the #1 exhaust valve.

    Any creative suggestions?
    <!-- / message -->
     
  4. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,568

    97
    Member

    Sounds like the cover is fouling one valve , probably catching the spring and keeper on the side ???? Look for scuff marks/gouges on the inside of the cover and marks on the valve springs/keepers .
    The other lack of compression will be the stuck valve you found when you opened the side plate.
    It could be sticky deposits from the old fuel, but it might all be BAD machining too........ whatever it sounds like the head is coming off again. Even if you get it freed up it will probably stick again if the valve to guide clearances are too small.
     
  5. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    useing early nisson
     
  6. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Take your time and take it apart

    You can ease up the valves and it may run only to stick again.

    If you fix this without finding the cause you may/will have this problem again.

    Your problem may be just bad fuel like Bill says..... but that doesn't mean you can get away with just getting the valves to move again.
     
  7. tiquer
    Joined: Oct 21, 2010
    Posts: 65

    tiquer
    Member

    The Datsun eletronic dizzy is very easy to adapt to the A or B engine. The one I have used for many years came from a 1978 -82 A-14 engine used in the 310 series. The mod. box is very compact and is mounted to the side of the distributor. Two wires run up to the coil the black one to the neg. the black and white one to the positive post. My A was 12v neg ground with a gm alt.Plugs where gaped at .060. Pull the datsun drive gear off the dist. shaft and machine the shaft to fit the drive from the oil pump , and turn down the dist. lower housing to fit your cylinder head where the stock distributer fit.I counter weghted the crank shaft and balanced the engine . With a down draft holly and 7:1 head it ran 60 mph all day with no worries. Oh the axel was 354 gears.
     
  8. kenagain
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 820

    kenagain
    Member
    from so cal

    I use a bmw mid 80's bosch electronic one works excellent with msd box
     
  9. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    The Riley head will be coming off the weekend unless soemthing happens by morning. After pulling the exhaust manifold tonite and feeling around under the valve, it seems like something is holding it up. I am soaking the valve stem and the seat overnight with kroil to see if I can loosen it up. If tomorrow night no movement is seen as the engine is rotated, I will pull the head and see what is going on.:confused: It is neat to feel the valves throught he exhaust ports doing there job as the engine is manual rotated. I am convince that after I am done there will not be a part of the engine I have not dealt with.

    I appreciate all the advice from the board along the way. :)
     
  10. andyg
    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 560

    andyg
    Member

    dave...you may want to do a compression test with the valve covers off. this would let you know if the springs are binding against it as would looking for scars on the inside of the valve cover. i'm still curious about the spring noise you heard when taking the cover off. probably happened that the valve closed at the same time by coinsidence but it may be binding. problem is probably in vavle guides or bent valve. I recently did a valve job on my 21 stud v8 and used some used 8ba v8 modern style valves that I had taken out of other engines. I was amazed at how many were bent. 4 out of the first 16 were bent! kept digging and found some good ones but wound up with 5 bent valves total.
     
  11. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    The Riley OHV head come off this afternoon. It gave me some fits until I place a screw driver on the lifter and rotated the engine and the head rose as the valve did. I found that the #1 combustion chamber of my Riley head did not have enough room to accomodate the #1 exhaust valve. The valve hung:mad: on to the side of the combustion chamber and would not let go.

    Something must have happened the casting of this head. I will be taking off some cast iron from the #1 and possibly #4 chambers before I put the whole thing back together.

    I would have assumed that for the money I paid for this head that more maching would have been accomplished to make sure everything fit.
    :confused:
    At least I getting to know the internals of my new engine.

    I appreciate all the advice I have been receiving. Will let you know when it is back together and even post some pics.
     
  12. Glad to hear that you found the problem ! Mine had a pinhole in the casting which spouted coolant but some clever fellows from Alexandria Mn solved the problem. I guess nobody ever said this stuff was going to be easy. Good luck with the rest of it!
    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

  13. tiquer
    Joined: Oct 21, 2010
    Posts: 65

    tiquer
    Member

    Hmmm my turbo idea is sounding better all the time what with the troubles some are having with the overhead conversions.Is there anyone out there that has had past experience with building there own turbo charge set up for the A or B engine? Would appreciate any feed back.
     
  14. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Please take the valves out and check them for bent!!!

    Look at the guides too. Check they are all the same installed height and there are no marks from the keepers hiting the end.

    As my old friend used to say ''It come assembled for ease of shipping.''

    Look at everything of you'll be doing this beside the road next!

    Sorry to hear this but not as bad as t could be honest.
     
  15. wayneat
    Joined: Apr 20, 2009
    Posts: 32

    wayneat
    Member

    I think you will find a bent valve. They had to grind or machine the seat in the first place, so a valve would have cleared the combustion chamber at that point. Something has changed and I doubt that it is the combustion chamber. This is supposed to be fun, so enjoy the little challenges and the education we are all getting. Good luck. And look forward to all that power you will have.
     
  16. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Wayneat posted

    "Something has changed and I doubt that it is the combustion chamber."

    Not if it is one of the repro heads.

    As Bluto said, check the exhaust valves--all of them just to be sure.

    Herb Kephart
     
  17. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    After spending some time in the light with the Riley Head on the bench, I think I am going to take it to the machine shop that willed the head straight for me last month. I am going to have then remove some cast iron material from cylinder combustion areas #1 and #4. #1 is very tight where the exhaust valve comes up from the engine block. I can easily see where it caught and hung. #4 is not as bad but is still very close in the relief area.

    The four exhaust valaves move effortlessly up and doen smoothly as the engine is rotated by hand with the head removed, but as yo all have suggested, since it will be a few days befor I get the head back from the machine shop I might as well remove the valves and verify they are all straight. :confused:
     
  18. well i just went and looked at a bunch of model a stuff and came home with a truck load of misc chassis and engine stuff... so no big deal right. Well i show the guy a picture of my phaeton and tell him a little about what i am into and all the stuff that i look for and he springs it on me " i have some old secrets of speed magazines....do you want them" heck yeah i said
    BAMMMMM he drops the first 20 issues of sos in my lap
    and fast also
    i guess i have alot of library time on my hands
    yeah
    tk
     
  19. What is the diameter of your exhaust valves? I'm using 1.600 on my original 2 port. It seems to me that C Yapp advertises the combustion chambers are completely CNC machined. I wrote a few days ago that C Yapp recently posted a rant regarding some shops charging way too much to install his 2 port heads. Might be a reason for that. Are you planning on CC'ing the combustion chambers after the shop relieves them?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  20. Dave in Denver
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 33

    Dave in Denver
    Member
    from Denver, CO

    Bill, I have the standard 1.600 exhauxt valves. The head looks as though it may have shifted during casting. I remeber reading somewhere that Charlie has some casting problems with a few of his heads. When the gaslet is placed on the head, it can be seen that the #1 combustion chmaber is slightly shifted. The area where the valve hung up seem to have more metal between it and the gasket edge than the other three cylinders.

    After the machining, I think I will cc the chambers to see what I have and make sure all are pretty close. It might be best to have the machine work all four cylinders a but to make them all clean. The OHV head is a 7:1CR head so there is a bit a compression to give with the machining.
     
  21. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,595

    BCCHOPIT
    Member


    I hope you are getting all your pics ready:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    6 1/2 hrs left til next month
     
  22. Gary in MN
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 112

    Gary in MN
    Member

    Hi Dave: Here are a couple of pictures showing the alignment of my R2P.

    Gary in MN
     

    Attached Files:

  23. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,568

    97
    Member

    Shouldn't the manufacturer come to the party here? It's not like it's made in China is it?
     
  24. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

  25. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Did Malory ever make a dizzy that was meant for an A/B that used V-8 points? Saw one recently, and the points looked like what I remember V-8 ones look like----course it's been a long time.

    Are any of the many varieties of A/B dizzys that they made more valuable than others? The one that I refer to was set up for vacuum, but the actuating mech. was internal.

    Herb Kephart
     

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