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October 2010 Banger meet OOOO Scary

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    It's a new month, let's get this month started


    Here is the banger link list .



    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=6


    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculatorfin.jsp


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/The-High-Speed-Internal-Combustion-Engine-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
     
  2. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Thanks Crazzzzz
     
  3. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    I know this has been asked about before but i don`know if someone actually posted real life experience with this.

    Alot of newer engines use bolts and i don`t actually see the problem with it even though i realize the lower degrees in a UNF thread, which would mean something during torquing.

    I would really like to use a set of sexy bolts i found for a 7.5:1 head. i like the fact that you geta a much easier head and gasket removal with bolts.
    IMO they also look better.
    The drawback is you can not "permenantly seal" a bolt towards the water jacket as you could with a stud.

    Any thoughts about this?
     
  4. Define "Sexy" bolts!

    When Taylor Engine finished rebuilding my Riley 2 port head they supplied grade 8 bolts with chrome caps and Jay recommended that I use the same torque as for a stud. He use to call for something like 59 lb. and I went to 65 because of seepage, most of which turned out to be "pin" holes in the casting. If I remember correctly the compression ratio is around 7.75 to 1. A little silicone on the body of the bolt above the threads or just under the head is probably a good idea. I did get some initial seepage on a couple of bolts. The head bolts originally used on some older engines and on some modern engines had/have a slight shoulder under the head to help with the sealing. Some of, if not all, of those bolts with shoulders run through the water jacket.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
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  5. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    CDO- The Ricardo book has been deleted.

    Herb Kephart
     
  6. doctorZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,243

    doctorZ
    Member

    Well, I guess I'll do a an intro for myself to the banger threads! I just got a stock 1930 coupe and am looking forward to building up the banger rather than swapping it out. I have the feeling you'll be seeing a lot of me over the next few months!
    -rob
     
  7. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member


    Wellcome Rob looking forward to seeing what you can get out of the old girl will it be a street motor?
     
  8. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,410

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I recently bought one...been looking for a while - expensive book, but I got one at a fair price (given the market)
     
  9. doctorZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,243

    doctorZ
    Member

    it's going to be an 'around town' car. probably an intake and exhaust first. maybe a head soon enough. it'll be built as a pre-war car so i'll be keeping the mechanical brakes.
     
  10. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    Sounds good Rob so plenty of trips to Sac Ford get their catalog first they have most of what you need but if you want to take the motor further decide early on and maybe look at a B motor or even one of these new blocks Crazydaddyo was talking about may save yourself some money in the long run plus look at what you can adapt modern 4 cylinder jap distributors are great things really pep your motor up and so reliable(12 volt of course)
     
  11. I am going through a motor that was rebuilt years ago and never put into use. After removing the oil pan and reinstalling it I just found a shield that goes around the oil pump that was never installed. It looks like its supposed to help keep the oil in the dipper tray longer. Was this an oversite or is it not needed. I am going to have to remove the pan for something else that came up so if it is needed I can install it then.

    Now my second question, I went to install an original cast winfield head on this motor and with the compressed gasket and the relief in the head I will only have .015 clearance. I feel removing .020 or .030 from the piston would be the best route to take. How much metal is needed for the thickness at the top of the piston. I don't want to weaken the top of the piston. The compression ratio will be 6 to 1. Thanks Ken
     
  12. Thanks Daddyo
     

    Attached Files:

  13. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,586

    BCCHOPIT
    Member


    GREAT JOB WEEKS :D:D keep us posted
    later Bill
     
  14. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    62 Pan-
    The oil pump shield is to try to keep oil in the troughs on a hard left hand corner. The early cars didn't have it, but since you are going to take the pan down anyway, I would put it back in.

    As to your piston/head problem--yes you need more clearance. Taking .030" off the piston tops won't hurt them any with even a mild street engine.

    Herb Kephart
     
  15. Thanks, thats what I needed to know. Ken
     
  16. doctorZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,243

    doctorZ
    Member

    yea, i actually was their top salesman for almost 3 years, so i am relatively familiar with their catalog :rolleyes::rolleyes:. i have an old cast iron Lion 8-plug head with a nissan dual-coil dizzy that has been converted, but since the head is now at almost 7.5:1, i am worried it's entirely too much compression for the stock engine until i get mains.
     
  17. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    Rob my thoughts are fairly evenly divided over shell bearings although I am useing shells in my motors now. As i study up on my Rutherford head and sidedrive i am becoming more and more convinced that instead of running a mag I should either gut an old mag and fit a CDI ignition into it or machine a block of alloy to take both CDI components and VW oil pump gears thus killing two birds with one stone. CDI ignition should be trouble free and an external oil pump will make it easier to fit my beehive oil filter pressure relief valve and run oil lines to where I want them
     
  18. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    sort of know the Sac area, Have a brother in law in the Fairoaks area and a fellow kiwi mate Craig Coulter in the same area
     
  19. windy
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 15

    windy
    Member

    Hi All , I have a few Questions for all the engine guys here , I have just bought a alloy 2 peice head that was used in a midget speed way car in the 50's in New Zealand .


    [​IMG]

    I have been told that it has very high compression , how can i work out the compression ratio ? & as you can see there is no place for a water pump , has anyone fitted a model T water pump to a model A motor & still been able to use the generator in the stock location ?
    I will be fitting this head to a new motor that I'am having machined at the moment for my 30 buckboard ute (see pic below ).
    [​IMG]

    I plan on keeping it as found on the outside & inside as I know it has not been apart from about the mid 60's (from the toll ticket I found under the seat ) but making it go just a lot better , I have built a over drive for the back of the trans & still need to shortern the drive shaft & torque tube .
    Any info would be a great help .
    Thanks Allan.
     
  20. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,586

    BCCHOPIT
    Member


    I think we need to see some pics of that head. It sounds very cool.
     
  21. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,258

    Stovebolt
    Member

    It may have come up in conversation before, but can anyone tell me how much a "C" head will boost the compression on an "A" motor?
    I have been offered a C head and water pump for my A
     
  22. andyg
    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 560

    andyg
    Member

    compression ratio is a difference in volume of the cylinder at top dead center verses bottom dead center of the crankshaft throw. in other words the cylinder has a certain volume (measure in cc's usually) with the piston all the way down and a certain volume with the piston all the way up. the difference as a ratio between piston up and piston down is the compression ratio. if the total volume of the cylinder, head gasket space, and volume of the chamber is 7 times more than the volume with the piston up at TDC, then your compression ratio is 7:1.

    to calculate compression ratio you need to cc the heads (use fluid suitable for cc'ing) turning the head with the combustion chamber up, put a clear, stiff piece of plexiglass or something like that (make sure it is sealed where the fluid fills only the chamber) and drill a hole where you can drip in a measured amount of fluid. Then calculate the volume of the entire cylinder (taking into consideration the dome of the piston if any and the amount the pistion may come out of the block, and the crushed thickness of the head gasket).

    but in simpler terms....bill, crazzydaddyo, and others will give you a better idea of (if your head is ?? cc's then your compression ratio is roughly ?.?:1, given a stock bore and stroke.
     
  23. andyg
    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 560

    andyg
    Member


    I may be wrong on this but about .5 comes to mind. so...say 4.7 to about 5.3 maybe?
     
  24. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 563

    Gaters
    Member

    My peek into banger lore.
     
  25. sorry, just throwin this shot of a miller overhead banger for all those who need an image fix....Joe Gemsa knows how to build bangers......dig this.
     

    Attached Files:

  26. re: the above compression bump up issue.....not enough of an increase to make a big difference, but if you search through old "secrets of speed society" archives/issues, they have lots of info on this sort of quick bump stuff
     
  27. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,258

    Stovebolt
    Member

    Thank-you, at least there will be minimal extra load on the bearings with .5 rise of the C.R.
     
  28. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I'm running 7.625 :1 head on a stock non counter weighted B bottom end.

    You'll have better life in the bottom end if you have a distributor that has automatic advance built in.


    Windy,
    We need pictures. We are all voyeurs when it comes to hop up parts.


    Here is an on line Comp ratio calculator:

    http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
  29. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,258

    Stovebolt
    Member

    Dan I plan on using a modified Prefect dizzy which has centrifugal advance features

    Thanks for the reminder
     

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