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Projects NOT THE TYPICAL '30 ROADSTER BUILD

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by roll of the dices, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Work has been crazy busy so I haven't had much time to work on the Model A.
    Today, was finally my first day available to work but it was raining so I had to wait until the weather clear up some.

    Sure enough...I was able to get some work done

    Next on list the was fixing the fitment of the front of the body to the frame or do the so call mini channel
    After some research and looking at some photos, I was ready to go.

    The idea is to remove the gap between the body and the frame
    thumbnail_IMG_4327.jpg

    First I removed the brackets.
    thumbnail_IMG_4318.jpg

    Removing them wasn't so difficult. I bought this air sander in CL for $10 and what a great investment it has been. Perfect to sand the rivet's head off to later strike them with pointy chisel and hammer.
    image_22204.jpg
    With access to the area I could start tracing my cut lines
    thumbnail_IMG_4321.jpg

    I use da laser level to get an idea of what I was supposed to cut
    thumbnail_IMG_4323.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4324.jpg

    I traced the cuts to be made
    thumbnail_IMG_4326.jpg

    Cutting was relatively easy with this cut off wheel. Another CL score for $15
    The area is very tight so the long reach makes easier
    image_14251.jpg
    Here is the area all cut up
    thumbnail_IMG_4332.jpg

    It came out very nice; however, it was warm but not cigar just yet
    thumbnail_IMG_4329.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4328.jpg

    There is still a little bit of a gap, right in the front....maybe another 1/8" to trim...
    thumbnail_IMG_4330.jpg
    thumbnail_IMG_4329_2.jpg

    The outside is almost there but some more shaving will make it fit better.
    That fold on the bottom of the cow panel is barely touching the frame, but enough not to let the body clear and come down as it should
    thumbnail_IMG_4335_2.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4336.jpg

    Unfortuantely, I ran out of daylight.
    The plan is to reduce the front foot a bit more by raising the cut of the subrail higher...closer to the bottom of the hole...
    That should give me the drop I need to be flat on the frame.
    thumbnail_IMG_4338.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  2. Ok, round two, before taking my girls out to the park, so they too can enjoy their Sunday.

    Started by trimming the side of the body where the bottom of the cowl panel folds and it was rubbing the frame. Just a little trimming was needed
    thumbnail_IMG_4348.png
    BEFORE
    thumbnail_IMG_4349.png
    AFTER

    I recut the angle of the front and it allowed the body to sit flat on the frame thumbnail_IMG_4343.jpg
    thumbnail_IMG_4344.jpg

    Re-checked the center of the rear wheels...Money!
    thumbnail_IMG_4341.jpg

    Marked the body to the frame for future reference. There is no side to side movement.
    The body fits like a glove
    thumbnail_IMG_4342.jpg

    Looking back at the fat I shaved
    thumbnail_IMG_4347.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4345.jpg

    Made some templates for the fill in pieces. I will be using the nearby hole on the frame to bolt down the body.
    thumbnail_IMG_4346.jpg

    Looking back, I was hesitant to do this but it wasn't that hard.
    I was afraid that it was going to require more experience but even with my minimum experience I got it done.
    Maybe this week I will get to cut the filler pieces and spot weld them in place before traveling for work again
     
    dwollam, deluxester and brEad like this.
  3. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Memory says the body to frame blocks "lift" the subfloor about 1/4" above the frame...
    didn't see your blocks...
    I put my '30 coupe on the '33 tube chassis that I built...
    I raised the front 4'of the frame like the '33s did... but my coupe subfloor was flat...
    I shaved the blocks, cut out about what you did...
    then used the front half of a pair of '35 tudor door patches for the cowl patches as they curl upwards towards the front...
    DSCN0690.JPG
    this kept my cowl skin even , not overhanging the frame...
    filled in what was cut away and used body to bumper brace brackets as front cowl to frame mounts...
    one split bumper mount makes 2 cowl to frame mounts...pic... [like '33-'34 trucks.] vvvvvvxxxx.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  4. You made a really good point. I forgot my wood blocks.
    I removed them before cutting all the metal, so I do have them and will need to modify them to fit the new contours.
    thumbnail_IMG_4350.jpg
    If I understand correct, the body will go up about 1/4" once the wood blocks go back on. I do have about 1/4" draping on the sides, which will put the body flush with the frame once the wood blocks are installed.

    Thank you for calling that out. I better get working on the wood blocks before welding the filler pieces since the front of the firewall feet will need material added.

    For the wood blocks, do I just need to reduce the height of them to accommodate the lower height of the body?
     
  5. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    that is what I did,
    you should put in some B pillar and wheelwell blocks as they affect the cowl front's angle...
    my '33 frame rails started "up" just ahead of the '30's door...
    my firewall, s/f extensions and blocks are radiused to match it...
    careful ! … see the angle change from under the door to under the hood...
    lowered my radiator 2" plus... DSCN3316.JPG
    Henry ran some wood screws through the subfloor extensions into the cowl blocks to keep them where they belong...
    me too...
    screwed "all" of the blocks to the subfoor so they stay there when you take the body on and off the frame... my $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    dwollam, Shadow Creek and brEad like this.
  6. I was able to spot weld the filler pieces. in pace Starting to take shape.
    I am happy with the outcome once finish and with the reinforcing brackets on it should look a lot better.
    I will leave them like this for now until the rear sub rails are done and the wood blocks are figured out, then I will remove the body and final weld everything

    Looks like I am going to be removing approximately 1/2" to 3/4" of the height of the wood blocks.

    Next on the list is the sub rails...

    thumbnail_IMG_4351.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4352.jpg
     
    cactus1, dwollam and brEad like this.
  7. Itchy-Pit
    Joined: May 7, 2008
    Posts: 456

    Itchy-Pit
    Member

    Labor rates are a bit higher her up north Central CA. $80-100 per hour. Maybe I should come your way for help.
     
  8. Itchy-Pit
    Joined: May 7, 2008
    Posts: 456

    Itchy-Pit
    Member

    Not in Central CAL $80-100 per hour if you are lucky and know someone real well.
     
  9. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    holy ginger snaps... I have been welding door patches, bed parts and subfloors for a young guy's '29 pick up …………….. his "mom" paid me every time... in double batches of home made cookies..... mmmmm !
     
  10. Wow! That's some serious investment.
    I don't think I could ever afford paying someone to have a project like this built for me.
     
  11. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A sloppy trick... er tip, is weld a 3/8" nut between a pair of flat washers with a 3/8" bolt crushing them... then weld on a common nail pointing towards the "larger" bottom flat washer, this is a handle so you can steer it...
    remove the bolt, slide the stack under your subfloor extensions and drop a 5/16" bolt through it...
    by taping additional flat washers to the stack and tightening the bolt you can determine how far above the frame the subfloor extensions want to be...
    the hight of the stack will be how tall your blocks should be... my $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    dwollam likes this.
  12. Great tip! I think I understand what you are saying. I am trying it out.
    If you have any pics of it ,would be great see it.
     
  13. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 2,045

    31Apickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Roll of diced, if you look up my coupe build thread, I show how I mounted the body of mine with the blocks. I modified my front mounts much like yours.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  14. nice work there........
     
  15. Thank you for sharing. It gave me some good ideas for mine
     
  16. Thx
     
  17. Looking good dude! That inner body work like that is such a bitch!
     
  18. Started to trace and fit the rear sub rails. These are Steadfast's sub rails.
    Good looking product but a bit steep on price. I can see how it can save a lot time and fabrication

    Started by setting them over the frame and below the body to get rough idea of where to cut them; after all, I didn't want to cut my +$500 investment in the wrong place.

    thumbnail_IMG_4361.jpg

    I couldn't really find many posts that would specify where to cut them or how to align them or what to look for, so I am trying to play it by ear and let the body determine the best location.
    The contour of the frame and the rails is not dead on exact, so they can move a bit back and forth. I found the best fit possible within the frame and bolt placement ,and then clamp them down.
    I was imagining that these sub rails were going to sit kind of centered within the frame rails and somehow align to the existing rails, well, that was not exactly the case.

    I started by cutting away some of the side flanges, to let the body sit over the sub rails at the back.
    thumbnail_IMG_4362.jpg

    After some minor trimming they dropped right in
    thumbnail_IMG_4364.jpg

    I marked the existing rails over the sub rails and cut them just a bit oversize. After some minor adjustments, they were fitting where I thought they felt really good. The inside of wheel wells were nice and flush against the flange.
    Using the panel below the deck lid as a reference, I sort of found the right width at the back.
    Nothing is welded yet but I think the passenger side is good for now.
    thumbnail_IMG_4373.jpg

    I still got the other side to do but in the meantime I have a few questions to tackle.

    1. Does the sub rails sit below or above the rear corners? Below the corners feels right; I am thinking of doing a slide cut on the back of the rail, and fill, so I can bring the sub rail straight, more like the original does.
    I am thinking if the subrail sits below the body., once I rebuild the corner I would have a base to bolt the corner down to.
    2. The rear crossmember. Because the sub rails are not the same size as originals, I am assuming the ends of the sub rails at the corners will need to be reworked to accept the rear crossmember?

    thumbnail_IMG_4363.jpg

    Well, that is for now. I am traveling for work all next week, so this a good stopping point.
     
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  19. lamaison
    Joined: Oct 21, 2006
    Posts: 83

    lamaison
    Member
    from Canada

    Do you have the rear sub-frame cross-member and the panel below the decklid that attaches to it?


    EDIT NOTE: Since going back thru this thread I see you have all the original pieces - are you not going to use and attach
    the rear sub-frame cross-member to your new side rails?



    Model A - rear panel below deck lid #1.jpg SUBFRAME REAR CROSSMEMBER 005.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  20. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't forget to use some wooden blocks or shims under the steadfasts…
    .
    any budget builders wanting to save a few bucks might try this...
    just made these with some 90*s, U channels, Z bent steel strips and a buddies shrinker stretcher... the U channels will also work as crossrails when installing ...
    I may slide a 90*s strip under the Zs to double the surface gauge, it making a channel over the blocks and still have the vertical to weld to the wheelwell... will also encapsulate the mounting blocks...
    at the metal shop the strips cost about $6 each... DSCN3960.JPG DSCN3959.JPG DSCN3957.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  21. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any coupes I have messed with had a slotted crescent plate that riveted to the heavy rear crossmember pinching the quarter's rolled under rear skin to the HRC... memory ?
     
  22. HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Joined: Jun 22, 2006
    Posts: 70

    HUGHES AUTOMOTIVE
    Member

    I'm using the same kit on my project Coupe. Tack everything and make sure your trunk lid fits before you weld it.
     
  23. I do plan to use the original crossmember but attaching it to the new sub rails is the part that I haven't figure out how to do just yet.
     
  24. That's how my roadster is and how the rear quarter's corners were attached to the crossmember.
    Well, more like rust was holding everything together but I could see traces of what you describe.
    I think my plan is to put a base plate to the rear corners when I rebuild these and use a bolt to secure them to the crossmember and then some how make a transition from the Steadfast sub rails to the crossmember, much like the original, to hold everything together.
     
  25. When I saw your post on these it was too late for me, since I had already bought mine but I thought it was a really good way to make the sub rails. It would have given me a good excuse to buy a shrinker/stretcher too :)
     
    brEad likes this.
  26. Solid advise. I can see how things can get out alignment really easy.
    Any movement to the body and the doors and cowl shift.
    Once I get some time to get back to work on the crossmember, the plan is to hang all the sheetmetal, check it, mark it and start tacking in place. Double check and weld it.
     
    brEad likes this.
  27. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 3,726

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    improvement...
    local hamber asked me if I had any clay... nope...
    he went in town and he then gave me his Crayola "blue" he kept the other colors...
    he uses it to check how close his oil pick up is to the oil pan...[3/8"-1/2"]
    it would also work to determine how thick your body mounting blocks must be...
    extra handy with an A on deuce rails as the body now bolts down through the subrails not the crossrails…
    love stealing good ideas from others rodders...
    get the stays soft type... still keep it in a ziplock with the air squeezed out and then in Tupperware...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    roll of the dices likes this.
  28. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,963

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    Thank you, it's Buick Titian red, or as close as I could match it in base/clear.

    I'm not sure where I found these pictures on the internet long ago, but I've been saving them on my phone, apparently to show you right now!
     

    Attached Files:

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  29. Old-Soul
    Joined: Jun 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,538

    Old-Soul
    Member

     

    Attached Files:

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  30. Old-Soul
    Joined: Jun 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,538

    Old-Soul
    Member

    Seriously though, good fuckin work dude.
    Subbed, this'll be a nice roadster.
     
    brEad likes this.

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