Not my fault the motor blew! Machine shop messed up!

Hey stuff happens. I blame myself and so does my brother. It was a comedy of errors. You feel somewhat better when you talk to an old veteran racer whom you respect greatly and he says......let me tell you about the time when we blew the crank out on the ground at......... Lippy (still teasing the rattlesnake).

 

Machine shop from Hell story.

I took a block to a shop to be worked over for racing. Bore was to be .060 over, block was to be aligned bored and zero deck height. Took the heads in only to have spring pressures checked. The heads had already had extensive work done and needed no extra work. Got a call back that they had to replace several Springs and they decided to open up the bowl a little. During the process they went too far and cut into the chamber, so they said. So I’m out a good head that had a lot of work done. When I took another head to be set up, low and behold they couldn’t find my other one.
<O
When I picked everything up the next week and got it home I had two days till my next race. As we started to assemble the pistons would not fit into the cylinders. It had not been bored the .060 over for the pistons I had sent with it. Call the machinist (term used loosely) and he came over to see. Said there was a new guy that did the bore and he didn’t check behind him. I asked about the extra charge I paid for the zero decking and how they had accomplished that without inserting the pistons. Again all new guy fault. He would take it all back and correct it. I told him his shop just cost me a race. He said they would fix and assemble and get it back to me on tine for the race.
<O
Got the engine back on race day and installed it. Ran 10 laps and put it on the trailer because it just didn’t have any umph. Next day we cranked it up and was going to tweak it to try and get some power. The engine had just reach temp when we heard a knock and before I could hit the kill switch it threw a piston through the side of the block. Of course the machine shop said it wasn’t their fault, they had been building race engines for years and knew what they were doing, it had to be something I had done, I agreed, I had taken my work to them.
<O
The Shop went out of business a few month later.

 

While building a small block ford about 25 years ago, as i was torquing the main caps the crank would not budge . Turns out the .010 /.010 he cut the crank to was the spec. for a small block chevy.

 

Depends on how many you assemble in a day, how hung over you are on Monday morning and who is breathing down your neck to get it done before noon I guess.

I never let the machine shop screw an engine together for me. I check my own tolerences and even make sure that the wisker on the top of the piston is in the right place prior to assembly. It is comon for people to think that if you just got the pieces back from the machine shop they are correct.

I went to assemble some Harley heads for my pan once after a valve grind. I didn't have a valve machine in my road bag and needed to freshen my top end. I noticed something didn't seem right and sure enough upon closer inspection I was correct. The bone head switched the valves around. Intake in the exhaust and exhaust in the intake. I ended up with hard seats before all was said and done, talked the guy in the machine shop into letting me do the work myself.

That is probably the worse I have had happen to me over the years.

I had a crank ground that was out of tolerance on a couple of journals once. But you are able to buy inserts in increments of .001. I got the fella who owned the shop to get me the correct inserts for the offending journals and got it back together alright.

 

like unibody guy said dont bet your ass on crate motors either. i bought the same engine .nine pounds of oil pressure at idle they said some engines had bad pumps, they sold me a new pump returned the old one was reimbursed, eleven pounds pressure they stated that is within specs. i installed a low pressure high volume pump ,normal pressure. at 4000 miles it blew a head gasket,gm said tough if not installed in a auto wich came with this engine warrenty is one year. made in mexico pos

 

The 350 in my 38 has 1-2 lbs @ idle and has been everywhere

 

That is funny.......is this better?

I was really in luv with my previous avatar.

 

the only machine shop i would ever take a block to have machined closed about 25 years ago, but once when i sent them a 351 ford block, they sent the block with the wrong crank back.
the 351s are windsor,cleavland, and i forget what the 3rd one is, but i assembled and installed the block.
idled and purred pure power, but when you tryed to accelerate any, it had this mean vibration.
replaced the flywheel twice.
told my friend thay must have given me the wrong crank back.
he argued that could not have happened.
after 45 minets on the phone with the shop, they agreed to check it out,pulled the motor and sent it with my friend, who is the one who showed me how to disassemble and assemble a motor.
my friend said they pulled and checked crank and sure enough it was the wrong crank.
they offered him a job right on the spot.
rich

 

X2, plus, you should check everything, fits, clearances, finishes, carefully before you start re-assembly, and clean and check each piece again as you go along, even parts you pull out of a sealed package can be damaged or made wrong.

 

So it makes it a 351.177 rounded out to a 351.2 hummmm cant we just say it is.Damn mathmatics always screw things up,even bullshit hahaa

 

This is happening at the right time. We've been having trouble with engines in the shop the last couple months.
First, a Triumph enigne, built by a supposed Trump expert, would hardley run at all. After letting my friend/customer do the normal checks tests, etc, for a long time, I looked at him doing the compression test. Took forever (kicking it!) for it to get to 100 PSI. Oiled it, same thing. Had him pull the heads, and it turned out to have standard bore pistons, in big bore cylinders! Piston to wall clearance was close to 0.060! Time for new cylinders, or pistons.
Next, just beginning this month, had an OT project car I've been buiding/modifying for over 4 years, start to knock. Engine was purchased at the beginning of the build, but only been running for a year or so. Only to idle,break in, drive in and out of the shop.
This was an expensive, custom built crate motor, Edelbrock alum. heads, carb to oil pan. Supposed to have been run in and dynoed at the speed shop.
Shut it down immediately after hearing the knock. Pulled the intake, then the heads, finally pulled the engine. Rod sticking out of the oil pan.
Engine builder firt tried to get out of it, due to the buy time of the engine, but after showing him pics, he agreed that there wasn't any time on the engine.
Checked tightening torque on the rods, and the torque wrench wouldn't click, even on the lightest setting (30 ft/lbs) Used a bem type torque wrench to check break-away torque on the rod caps....10-15 ft/lbs! seems they were neve torqued down!
The builder "graciously" offered to re-do the short block, with labor being free! But with shippiong the engine to CA, from NJ, That incentive lost it's desireability. Besides, he wanted to use a new block and crank, probably rods, and pistons, as well...I'm sure his markup on all these new parts would offset the "free labor" he was offering.
Seems he really isn't compensating the customer for his screw up at all!

Going to have my trusted local builders so the job.

 

I have a buddy who opened his own machine shop because he could not get things done to his standard. Been using him for 30 years. He does all the boring, grinding and surfacing. I do the assembly. Everything has been A1 for 30 years!!!

 

Now that's a lightening hole.

 

I call BS,highly doubt a 351-C or 351-M crank could be installed in a 351-W without a problem right from the start. A 302 crank,maybe.

 

Everything I send out that I want back I either write down the serial number or mark it with an engraving pencil. Gotta be careful with rods though and grind out the marks before assembly.

Bob

 

Geeze! Learn new things every day! I was just about to throw some E7's on non-roller 85 302 sb I had laying around. I haven't looked at it closely yet, but I probably wouldn't have thought to had I not read this.

 

You guys are scaring the crap outta me with some of these tales. I'll be looking for a good shop that's RB Mopar knowledgeable and proficient down the road. I plan on assembly,so,as has been stated,if I screw up and it's my fault,I accept that and learn.

I have considered the crate motor route,but,again,as has been stated,they aren't always what they claim to be. I've been personally told stories of RB and Hemi crate motors going boom,if they went anywhere.

I'm going to treat the tired 413 in the Sport Fury REAL good for a while. Also glad to see this thread maintain a level of civility.

 

Al
Any machinst can screw anything up at any point. Stuff happens.

If you start a thread about who has the worse nightmare about any given thing it will go on for days. Now start a thread about who has had good fortune on the same subject and see how far it goes.

In my lifetime I have had very few bad experiences with machine shops and a lot of good experience. I have managed to screw up a few parts myself while working in automotive machine shops. I never worked any place that the screw up wasn't made good.

Find yourself the best machinist you can. It doesn't have to be an "RB machinist." An engine is just an engine, there are only so many ways to bore a block or grind a crank. The main thing is to find a machinist that is competent and you are comfortable with. The phone book is going to be full of them.

 

I always build my own engines. I wait until the next day and recheck all ive done the day before. I never button the engine up the 1st day.

 

I have built over 100 engines and only had one blow up. I was in a rush to install a bigger motor in the dirt oval track car and did not get the rods magnafluxed, the number seven rod broke with 5 laps to go, In the 20 years I have been inspecting engines I have never seen the carnage produced when that rod broke at 5800 RPM. The only thing I could save was the intake manifold........

 

my shop forgot to put the locks on the piston pins ...

engine didnt alst 20 min break in

called him over ..

he had my car towed pulled the engine himself replaced it with a better engine and apoligised for his mistake .

too bad there arent more like this old guy but his son and grandson still run the shop the same way
sign in their shop...
If there is a problem call us , we will make it right!

 

I've been using the same machine shop locally for about 25 years and he was really good, especially on Ford engines. But the last couple of years his work has begun to slip, rumor in town is that if he does the work it is good but if one of his two helpers do it, not so good. Last straw was two galley plugs blowing out of my 331 sbf on two different occasions. He accepted no responsibilty and said we spiked some high oil pressures (never went over 60 psi) He also did a valve job for my work a while back and they sucked the valves after 15 minutes of running time.

We are now using a race engine only machine shop that we found and the workmanship is drasticallly better. This guy has equipment most shops would die for, and has a dyno that will handle 3300 hp. Costs just a tad more, but everything is balanced and comes back looking the way it should, even bagged. He told me when I took a recent motor there not to ask him to take any shortcuts because he wouldn't do it, and he has sure proven that so far.

Don

 

10 years ago I bought a rebuilt 302 Ford from Coast Motor Supply. I had it installed and it ran great. One day I was at a red light and all of a sudden, boom!

It started running terrible & smoking. Luckily I was a few blocks from home so I got it home ok. I could tell it was on the RH side of the engine because it was only smoking out the RH tailpipe.

I popped the valve cover and there was one of the press in rocker studs lying there!

I probably should have gotten the screw in type but anyway, it was still under warranty and they fixed it and 30K miles later it still runs great!

 

I'll bring this one back to life!! In 1969 at the ripe old age of 16, I bought my first car; '57 Ford Courier, sedan delivery! 292 engine, smoked like you wouldn't believe!! I wanted to tear it down at home, Mom wouldn't let me! Afraid I'd get hurt! So we shopped around and took it to an "automotive school", (I've forgotten the name), left it there. Turned out that 2 rod pins had knocked the retainer clips out and had scored the bores! Big time! Got the car back, and frankly the manager of that place I felt like he was full of B. S.!! The car ran better, no smoke, but somehow I didn't think all was well!! Fast forward about a year to my senior year in high school; I took "vocational auto mechanics"! I hadn't run the engine too hard, since mom made me pay for everything, I took better care of it! (Not like all you brats that have stuff dumped in your lap), tore the engine down that fall! The heads were a mess, lousy valve job, but then a buddy and I were checking the crank and looking at the bearings. Crank had been turned .020 on the mains and rod throws. We had .020 rod inserts, BUT ONLY .010 mains!!! In other words I had almost .013 clearance on the mains!! CRAP, I don't know how it stayed together!! It also explained why the rear main seal leaked, it was pounded out by all the clearance!! Since then, progressively, I do as much of my own engine work that I can, and double, sometimes TRIPLE check things!! P.S., knowing a little more about engines, I would love to hear that sloppy engine run again!!

 

I was about 15,worked inna chopper shop for $1.25 an hour so when I had my 283 boiled,honed,rods resized,new rings and bearings finally all sitting in my moms garage ready to put together it took alot of saving and alot of time to get this far! I put the crank in,turned over nice. I put first two pistons in nice and tight.I kept putting it together and by the time I got all 8 in I could barely turn the thing over! I went to a mechanic buddy and told him my dilemma and he says,"Did ya keep the rod caps in order?" I says "huh?" Well.... I had to take it allllll back apart and have the rods resized again then everything was fine.....Seems I always have to do things two or three times to get it right BUT....I have never mixed up the rod caps again....many more stories to follow....some my fault but not all....The year was 1975,the car my first,a 1963 Impala S.S. the motor a 1965 283.

 

How high? Well...we had been using Dow chemical cleaner and stopped working when we realized that all we were doing was giggling!
The next morning the other guy was thinking about how carefully we had torqued the oil pan bolts with the torque wrench when he realized that we had not torqued any of the connecting rod bolts!
So the answer is Pretty High!

 

That is why you don't have kids build a motor.
Jay

 

All the posts about mismatching rod & main caps makes me happy at least one manufacturer stamped them when they are building them (AMC)

(^^same company also puts the engine size on the side of the block & in the VIN).

Other machine shop warning I'd offer is get your quotes in writing.

It's no fun when they pump up the price for *extras*, then conveniently forget the extras a week later when you drop the parts off.

 

Voc tech story,
a buddy of mine gave what was left of a parts car to a *friend*/auto tech teacher.

Stipulation for getting the remnants of the parts car for free was,
the teacher would pull the (previously very well running) engine out for my buddy,
so he could sell it to me.

First surprise when they picked up the formerly well running engine was the voc tech teacher had the kids clean it & paint it the original turquoise blue.(how nice!)

Second surprise was that instead of an engine that had been running just a few weeks before, they got a different, complete throw together engine with nothing torqued down, mismatched parts, used head gaskets, no intake gasket, etc etc.

Easiest engine teardown ever, since nothing was stuck together.

Buddy gave me my $$ back,
and never passed another free parts car on the the shop teacher.

I guess a free parts car is good,
but bait & switching a running engine out of the deal is even better.

 

I've been in the machine shop business since the late sixties.

Mistakes can happen, even to the best most experienced people out there. It is the way the prblem is corrected that really counts in my book.

I was once building a marine engine. Was installing the timing chain set and the phone rings. Call takes about 15 min and I go back to engine and button it up.

Customer calls and engine won't start. It's at a marina 40 miles away.. That Sunday I go to the marina and the engine has no compression and I realise what was wrong. Cam timing is way off. Luckily the engine was out in the open so I unbuttoned the front and corrected the problem. No BS ,no charge.. Customer still sends me engine build jobs.

Then there is the guy who assembled a 2.5 GM while drinking a few Colorado Kool Aids.. Pistons in backwards and Rod caps on wrong. But I had sold him a new-reground crank with rod bolt nicks in it. Or the guy who destroyed three sets of small block Ford main bearings. Trying to install the crank with thrust bearing in no. 5 main saddle. It's my fault that Fords thrust on center main..etc...

Been there many times.. It's always the other guys or machine shops fault!!