Not my fault the motor blew! Machine shop messed up!

it really sucks when things go wrong and everyone stands there pointing fingers at each other. when i was working for a engine reman company shipping out 128 motor per day i did see the returns and the majority of them were because of improper installation but shit happens at times.

 

Scary stuff, I have a rebuilt short block Flathead by a reputable builder, he picks the shop and does the assembly. But all this talk has really got me thinking, although the old timer is a one man show, I would just hate to see something go wrong when I go to start this up for the first time. But I have no doubt at all the builder would have no problem helping me out if something is not going right. This tread is going to make me have a much closer look at all my specs now.

 

Me too. When I was 19 I was spinning wrenches in a GMC garage. I was installing what was called a fitted block. It came with just piston/rings. I turned it on every cylinder but the last one. That rod turned out to be bent, had the engine all back together before I found it.

 

I'd say invest in a good quality torque wrench and learn how to use it! The last one I did was a '95 351W Lightning short block from Ford Motorsport.. I disassembled it and hand honed the piston bores an extra .001" to make it a true 352 ci motor... With all the "go fast" goodies on it, that little monster runs like a raped ape!

 

woh thats real deep

 

Had a customer, 289 ford. Assembled the long block, customer to finish intake and installation. Week later I get a call, engine doesn't have any oil pressure. Seeing as we had primed the system before the engine left the shop, I couldn't imagine what the problem was.
Went to the customers house to check it out, sure enough no oil pressure. Had him pull the engine and bring it into the shop.
With the customer there, we started to disassemble the engine.
The oil pan and pump pickup was full of some kind of stringy material. When we pulled the intake, we found remnants of paper towels.
The customer had placed them in the intake ports when painting the engine, never removed them. How he actually got the engine to start is beyond me. Paper shreds everywhere.
What a mess!
Had to totally disassemble everything to clean the paper shreds out.
Gave the customer a break on labor, but did charge for a complete disassemble, cleaning, and reassembly. This time we installed the intake, and ran the engine on the dyno.

Ken

 

Gotta call you on that one. I'm sitting here waiting for my coffee to kick in but it looks like your .001 over is worth around .177 cubic inches. (G)
Larry T

 

A local machine shop rebuilt a 390 FE for my tow truck. Had a knock from the get go but great power. They lisened to it, didn't have a clue what the noise was so told me to drive it till it blows, then they would fix it! Motor went 88,000 miles before I pulled it. Found they had put 360 rods in one bank, don't know how, they don't even look like 390 rods. Being longer the pistons on that bank were coming out of the bore and barely kissing the heads at higher rpm, hence the knock! Pistons were ate up from detination, must of had 12/1 compression on that bank. If I hadn't been the one driving it I'd never imagine it could of gone that many miles!

 

Old time friend Jack bought a Model A. A restored 31 coupe. Shameful body work and paint.

Rebuilt engine? Starts up and has a knock. Sounds like rod bearings. Tear down, find .060 over pistons. Measure bore, side clearance .015-.018. Friend Paul finished honed cylinders and put in .080 over pistons. That solved the knock, then valves, guides, deck block and head.

 

not very high didnt drink then.,but been there done that

 

Not a good idea to multi-task when building an engine. I have always had good luck with all the parts I have had machined in the past, I am picky and do always insist on speaking with the machinist to see if he knows his stuff.

Red Ram Hemi

 

20 years ago I had the local machine shop overbore an MGB 4 cylinder engine,I supplied the pistons.I went to pick up the engine and noticed the bores were nasty near the top of the cylinder.In the past some hack had got carried away with a ridge reamer.So I asked the shop machinist why he didn't call and say there was an issue.He just shrugged it off and told me it's my problem.I called him a fuck head,threw some money on the counter,grabbed my stuff and walked out.The shop manager called me that day and said to bring back the stuff and they will make it good.Bigger oversize pistons and it was good to go,no extra cost to me.
This shop has machined quite a few engines for me.Two years ago they did a SBC for me and I was not all that pleased they cut the block .040 instead of using the pistons we agreed on.I noticed during assembly that some stuff was not deburred after machine work and similar short cuts. The engine also used some coolant despite the shop claiming to have pressure checked this and that.But it ran strong.
One more time just to prove I'm stupid.....the shop did the machine work a few months ago on the 4 cylinder F head in my avatar Willys.I told them to call me if there was problem,like cracks in the block.Well,they call to say all the machine work is finished.I get there and the shop manager says " Oh yeah,there's a crach on the block deck" The guy was supposed to check the block before machining! Jeep guys told me it was a "good crack" don't worry about it.
So me and the wife assemble the engine.....starts instantly and sounds fine.She jumps in for a test ride and 2 valves sieze in the guide....Fuck!
I got to a different shop,he says the guides were distorted in the center when pressed in and then never reamed to size.Another 120 bucks and it runs fine.

 

Have the machine shop do all the machine work.. Borrow ,buy ,rent, torque wrench, micrometer, dial bore gauge, get yourself a manual with all the torques and clearances and go to work, double check everything,, it aint rocket science, you will know what you have, you can catch any machining mistakes and you may learn something.

 

I believe all the machine shop should do is just that, machine the engine.
I clean it, I build it, I blame my self when it goes boom. My dad has been wrenching for a long time and even I have a little bit now, professionally and on our own. It happens. Both sides screw up at least once. Hopefully only once.
I think proper cleaning has been the main culprit in any thing I've blamed a shop for. Now I look over it like it's going to space.

 

I had a 340 mopar built years ago by a very expensive shop in Missisauga that made their name racing these small blocks mopars.

I brought them a virgin 69' 340 with X heads. First time I got the engine back from them I got it installed in the car, and filled up the radiator only to have water start pouring out the open headers on both sides. They told me it was just leaking header bolts (in mopars they do go into water) and to fire it up. Luckily I pulled the plugs and water was pouring out of two cylinders.

My "ported and flowed" heads had been ground through right into the water jacket in the exhaust port, on both heads.

I take it back to them and they fix it for no cost. Two monthes later I go to pick it up and take one look at the motor and refuse. The heads that are on it are not X heads. They are not even 340 heads, but 360 smoggers that are not even ported (I paid a lot of money for them to port and flow the heads). I brought you a 340 with X heads, I want a 340 with X heads back, with the work I paid you for done to them.

Six weeks later I go to get the motor back again. It has X heads on it this time, and they are ported. They also have VISIBLE cracks. There are freeze cracks along the outside of both heads, and the intake bolt holes are cracked. I tell them I have had it - they better do what I paid them for, and have an invoice for ($5500 in LABOUR! - double what I was quoted) or I simply am going to go to the police for fraud and my lawyer.

Two weeks later I get my motor back - the heads look fine and they even broke it in on the dyno. I get it home, install it in the car and go to run the valves. The 273 forged rocker I gave them are not accurized, still have the original jam nuts instead of the lock nut conversion kit I gave them, have not been shimmed, and are missing the shaft springs. The rockers are pushing on the valve spring retainers in a few instances.

At this point I was pissed off enough that I made spacers for the new crane rockers I bought, and shimmed them nicely. The motor ran great for years after that and I eventually put it into another car that a friend of mine ended up with. He pulled the motor out to rebuild it and found stock replacement TRW pistons (hey, where did my Wiseco's go?), a 273 crank that was ground 20/20 that had the counter weights filled up with mallory metal to balance (where did my virgin 340 crank go?), no main studs, and the heads were both junk. One had been decked so much that they had to machine the chamber to keep the pistons from hitting, and I can't even remember what was wrong with the other one.

I felt real bad for my friend getting screwed with that motor, but I didn't sell it to him, as it had gone through another owner or two before he got hold of it. If I had known that it was made up of junk and all my good parts had been stolen, I would have not let him buy it.

 

I, to, had a bad experience with a machine shop. Took them a 390 FE block to machine and build for me (intake installation and all). When I got the motor back, I installed it in my 1955 F100 for break-in. Poured oil in the valve cover and oil ran out the back of the motor. I am a youngster and could not figure it out. Pulled the tranny, etc.. finding the oil galley plugs in the back of the block were not installed. I installed the plugs and put everything back together to start the engine. Fired the engine up and ran it for 20+ minutes over 2000+ rpms. When I finally got off the throttle, the oil pressure went to zero (missing oil galley plugs under intake). I told myself, “it is time for this young grasshopper to learn how to build engines”.<O</O
<O</O

I pulled the motor out and found a retired former ford factory sponsored drag racer/engine builder (1966 Ford Fairlane – 427) who lived in the area. I asked him if he would “teach me” how to build an engine. He was thrilled that a youngster was interested to learn about ole FE engines. My 390 had to be remachined and the heads gone through. Nevertheless, he gave me a lesson of a lifetime and now I know how to do it myself.<O</O

 

Larry, I also was having a cup of coffee and will be sending you a bill for a new keyboard.

 

Years ago I took some 327 heads to a shop for rebuilding. Got them back all shiny and nice. Installed them on my engine. It used a lot of oil, but had fair compression, didn't smoke at all that I saw. Then I noticed that the valve stems would wiggle. The guy cleaned it all up, then re-assembled my worn out valves and guides. Wouldn't stand by his "work", so I got a different set of heads done by a different shop. I also had problems with the lower end from another shop. The turned my crank with many grooves, and crushed the side of one piston when installing it on the rod. They would not back up the bad work, I had to take it to another shop. A buddy helped me put the heads back on, and it rattled after we started it. Pulled the heads, the side he did had a small nut in one cylinder. His comment? "Oh, there is that nut I dropped!" Got lucky, it didn't hurt anything. It finally got together and ran well for a long time. The old '29 A was fun to drive at last!

 

SORE subject for me!! I've had great fortune with literally hundreds of engines. I assemble all my own, but attribute my success with good machine work and good parts. I give credit where credit is due. However, my friend and machinist of over 30 years died last month at the young age of 55. I'm seriously considering NOT doing motors in my shop any more, not being sure I can trust anyone as much as I did Mustang Bob. R.I.P. You are missed

 

I was an automotive machinist for 30 years so I have more than a few but here's the first one that comes to mind....late 70's I did a small block for a buddy's '57 Chevy...bored, decked, align-honed the mains, re-sized the rods...the whole deal. He comes to pick it up and being his friend I said why don't we assemble it here..."no that's ok" he says....how bout we assemble just the short block...."nope, I want to assemble it myself"...he knows all about engines because he works on the garbage trucks and the street sweepers in the city yard....
get a call a week later.."something's f***e'd up in the engine"..which, by the tone of his voice, I took to mean "you f***e'd something up in the engine".
So I head over there on Saturday morning, my day off, and he's got the engine pulled out of the car and on a stand...him and all his hot-shot buddies are standing around it in a circle shaking their heads and mumbling incoherently about how it's locked up and it's all f'd up and they're giving me the evil eye...so with all eyes upon me I start pulling it down to see what's up. Well it turns out that all four pistons on the driver's side are seized to the wrist pins....my buddy, the one who thought he was Smokey Yunick , never bothered to lube any of them. The clockwise windage from the crank throws managed to get some lube up to the passenger side in time...but it takes a little longer for it to work its way around and up the driver side bores.....for the sake of a few squirts of strategically placed oil, he now has a huge mess and expense on his hands. After I got done explaining things to my friend, it was fun to see how all eyes turned to him now and they're looking at him like "you dumb shit" !
....smiled the whole trip home


.

 

Heres a tear jerker for you. I used to race dirt late models, still do some, but I had a brand spanking new dart engine built. Dart block, dart aluminum heads, callies crank, corrilla rods, jessel shaft rocker setup, roller cam. This was the best money could buy. Motor was complete carb to oil pan and completely assembled by the engine builder.A wise investment. Cost was a shade over 24,000 big ones and this was one bad boy. Anyway, headed to the track for a practice day before the season started to set the car up to suit the new motor. Pulled on the track and made a total of 7 laps before it grenaded. Only actually turned the motor about 8200 rpm when the max rpm was 9000. My engine builder was at the track and told me he would help me pull motor out and get it to his shop. The buider found that a lifter had gaulded and bent push rods, dropped valves, rurnt the cam and a head. He fixed this motor without any excuses or blame on me. This would have been an $8,000 rebuild if it was my fault. He's a standup guy and still does my motor work to this day. How can you complain about service like that. Im not perfect either!

 

I haven't had anything milled out to any shops yet, and now I'm kind of afraid to!

 

A machine shop is a tough business. You have a large investment in equipment, and there's always someone trying to lowball the pricing to get work. You can be the best machinist in the world but you can't do it all. You need help, and good help is hard to find. Dad and I had a machine shop together, and I ran it for a few years after he passed away. We didn't have to many comebacks, but if you do enough work you will sooner or later. We always made sure everything was clean, and the clearances were correct before it went out. Once we had people working with us we would always check (and sometimes corrected)there work.

I had a phone call one day, a customer was putting together a 3.8 buick v-6. He couldn't turn it over after he installed the heads. I asked him if he had the timing chain on right. He said he was trying to put the timing chain onbut can't turn it (using a 1/2" drive breaker bar). He had the rockers on and the valves open.

I lost count how many calls I got from people who couldn't figgure out the 3 keyway timing gears. I stopped selling them unless the customer asked for it.

I machined 3 blocks for a sprint car and it kept coming back with cam bearings spun. He was putting a bunch of junk together and the roller cam had about .100 to much lift for the springs.

Had a guy come in with a 454 that had a rod bearing out. he just wanted us to drop a crank in it so he could sell the truck. I said no, you need to take it apart and clean the oil galleys and do it right, but he said he would take full responsability. I did it, wrote on the invoice no warranty, and made him sign it. He came back, pissed off, reving it up with the engine knocking and banging. Here he didn't have the torque convertor centered in the crank. I cashed the check asap, but it was to late. The check was never good. We took him to court but he went to prison for assalting a police officer.

I could go all day. One more thing. If you do find a good machine shop don't talk about how bad the other shops are. He already knows, and he's more then likly thinking is this guy going to stab me in the back next time he fucks up?

 

x1000!

 

Sometimes no matter how meticulous or careful you are shit just happens. Heres a hit to your ego and wallet.

 

Needed some rebar in the concrete it seems!

 

My machine shop has been doing engines for me for 20 years, from jeep to tractor to whatever, in 03 we did a 320 cid 6 cylinder White for a tour bus, did it all correct, new everything and new pistons from Egge, put it in started it up and 10 minutes later it locked up here in the shop, long story short I pulled the pan and was checking bearings when I noticed a goober hanging from the bottom of a piston, when the machinest came to look ta it he said he screwed it up not having the right clearences in it, I calle bull shit, told him he's built too many motors and hasn't had comebacks I don't thinks so, so it goes back to the shop tear it apart, and clearance is right, I got a hold of Egge and they screwed up they had cammed the pistons incorrectly, they made good on it, poor bastards had to cast like 12 sets before they got one right, but said they wouldn't do anymore like that for me that next time I would have to get forged pistons, but they did ok by me.

 

Jay, I don't think there is a substance known to man on earth would have contained that bastard. Note to crew members.....Do Not Put 104% nitro in the warmup tank. Alky only please. And yes nitro WILL check 104% It was a quiet and somber ride home. Lippy

 

^^ awesome.....damn

 

If I were that crew member, I think I'd have just scurried off never to be seen again.

We all make mistakes, but I don't know how you make up for that one.

I'd have nightmares about that for years. Brutal.