So I've spent the past few days researching and reading old threads on putting hydraulic brakes on Model A's. Obviously the accepted traditional way is with later Ford, Lincoln or F100 set ups. But I find it hard to believe in the 60's nobody came up with another set up. Has anyone seen any other drum brakes on a Model A? Part two, forget the 60's and traditional, has anyone used any newer drum brake systems on Model A axles? Since I'm not going to be able to go 100% traditional any way, I can live with newer drums if the look is enough to fool all but the diehards and graybeards.
Search for chevy wagon drum brakes. Supposedly ones from a 70's - 80's model fit. I know there's a post on here with pics - maybe look in the tech-o-matic section too. Look in tech for buick drums on chevy backing plates - the post is in there.
With later Ford hydraulic setups being a bolt-on and with scrapyards FULL of the later Fords, why would anyone bother to research something different??? Besides...most early Hot Rods were still using the banjo rearend and changing the front drums to an off brand meant mix and matching wheels with different bolt patterns. By the time people got into the larger OHV engines and the old banjos just couldn't handle the strain, Disc brakes were becoming more popular. I really think there would have only been a short time period where something other than Ford drum brakes would have been of any real benefit...and that would have only been to match the front bolt pattern to your new, modern rearend.
i have no problems with my mechanical brakes . but the do make a "power booster" for the mechanicals ............ steve
Good point, I didn't think about 40's stuff being abundant and cheap in the 60's. Makes perfect sense though. Sadly, not the case anymore, at least in the boneyards around here. 40's parts that I do find (internet and repop) aren't inexpensive. But's that's all relative I suppose. What's left over from our living expenses goes towards the kids activities and college planning so dad has to make do with what he can. If I were single and kidless, I wouldn't have a problem ponying up to go the pure traditional route. Steve Norcal, I have nothing against your mechanical brakes, but with the parts I'm starting with it would be just as expensive to get good mechanical system up and running as well. Don't get me wrong, I applaud those of you keeping the old ways alive but I have to make do with what I can. In the end I'll have something I'm happy with a lot of traditional style but it won't be as it was back in the day.
Hey...I'm all about making do with what you have available...AND applaud you back for having the good sense to put your family first!!!! Ya know...you can get cheap kits for disc brakes and they do offer more consistant braking as they get hot... Wondering if it would be possible to use the spacers/bearings needed for say a GM disc and use it to swap the drum/hub from an older GM product? Some of the cars from the late 60's/early 70's had drum brakes with disc optional. Maybe GM kept the bearings and bearing distance consistant between the drum and disc to keep the parts chase simple! Never know...but that still means figuring out how to mount the backing plate to the Ford spindle and having it spaced correctly to meet the drum. I believe some of the early Econoline vans had a spindle and brake assembly that could be swapped onto an early Ford axle. I KNOW that even the 69 and up TwinIbeam suspended, E100, flatnosed vans had SMALL bolt pattern drums/spindles on them. I swapped a set AND a rearend into my larger Econoline back in the van crazy days so I could run a set of car Mag wheels I had! I'd be concerned that the KPI might be off with an early axle...but I'm SURE I saw it being done in a magazine years ago... Could be an issue with kingpin diameter too. I just can't remember the details but I KNOW I read about it! Did you look thru the "Techomatic" section? Lots of good brake info there but you have to search it out a bit.
Bill, I'm pretty sure I could figure out something if I wanted to go the disc brake route. I have a 46 Willys CJ2A that I swapped a Buick 231 into. First time I drove it I knew the the 9" drums weren't going to cut it, scared the you know what out of me. So I used late 70's GM 1/2 ton truck backing plates and calipers with 77 or 78 CJ5/7 rotors mate on the original axles for a 4 wheel disc set up. However, on this I want the look of drums. Plus I have some other parts I'd like to use if possible. I have 5 x 4.75" steelies and a set of aluminum finned drums off my old 80 Buick that donated its engine to the Jeep that I'd like to use on the front. As a result, that's why I'm exploring drum brakes with the chevy pattern.
The magazine article about Econoline brakes that Hackerbilt mentioned might be this one? It was in the July-August 1988 issue of Hot Rod Mechanix. Maybe this will help ya... -Terry
What axles do they put early Chevy spindles on? I've never researched how those swaps work but seems like if you can put the spindle on then the 51-54 backing plates, hubs and drums will work, and someone makes a disc kit for them too.
Little info<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0 itxtvisited="1"><TBODY itxtvisited="1"><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD width="43%" height=19 itxtvisited="1">Model A modern style backing plate from MT Auto Products of California</TD></TR><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD width="43%" height=89 itxtvisited="1">Do yourself a favor and get some of these for your Model A front brakes. They are far superior to 40 Ford front backing plates. 40 Ford rears are OK as not so much braking is done on the back. I thought they would bolt right on. Well, sort of. The instructions say to cut off the top of the king pins which the wheel cylinder interferes with. That did not appeal to me so I filed in new mounting holes with the backing plate tilted slightly to the rear. Uh, the grease cover would also not fit as it interfered with the wheel cylinder. So I had to grind/file the grease cover as well. Oh well, the story of my Model A life! These backing plates work great. I love em.</TD></TR><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD width="10%" itxtvisited="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Hydraulic Brakes for a Model A Ford The usual disclaimer: This is how I did the conversion. This is only my opinion. You are on your own if you do it like I did! Required parts: Front/rear backing plates/shoes and drums/hubs from 40/48 Ford. These will be used parts. 40/48 rear wheel bearings Front spacing rings and front bearing spacing rings available from Model A parts house 40/48 master cylinder/wheel cylinders 40/48 Grease seals for front/rear Steel plugs to weld into front backing plate mounting bolt holes. New emergency brake cable and part to attach to Model A brake shaft Brake tubes. The first time I did this conversion I purchased pre-formed tubes for a lot of money from MT Products and was glad to. The second time I save a lot of money and bent standard length tubes myself. When the tubes were too long, I bent a jog in the tubing so I wouldn't have to cut and flare. Try it, you can do it too! <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#c0c0c0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="81%" border=1 itxtvisited="1"><TBODY itxtvisited="1"><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD width="50%" itxtvisited="1">40/42 backing plates(46/48 also work) front on left (cleaned up and painted) and rear on right (before cleanup) Note the top cams for adjusting the brakes. Front backing plate with mounting bolt holes filled with steel plugs </TD><TD width="50%" itxtvisited="1">Front spacer installed on front backing plate with new mounting bolt holes drilled There is also a bearing spacing ring required for the front hub </TD></TR><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD width="50%" itxtvisited="1">40/42 Style bottom brake adjustment pieces for bottom adjusters </TD><TD width="50%" itxtvisited="1">New battery box with master cylinder on the side. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
More information here and with all the pictures you may be able to make a better comparrison with new parts since this all works http://members.fortunecity.com/pjsauber/HydraulicBrakes.htm
This comes up frequently. I used 1940 Ford drums, with 1971-76 Chevy BIG (only) Station Wagon (only) rear (only) brake shoes, all small parts, self adjusters etc. On the front I used Wilson Welding Lincoln backing plates but as I learned from using the 71-76 backing plates on the rear of my stock model A axle, I *could* have used the 71-76 plates on the front too. Cut out the centers, weld in centers made on your lathe to fit the Model A spindle. Ignore anyone who says the 2" shoes will not fit in the 2 3/16" wide '40 drums. MT products are NOT self adjusting. Do you really want to adjust your brakes manually?
MT is way too expensive for me for what you get.....I found a cool m/c mount on the HAMB that worked much better in my opinion..
the front brakes are very easy. get wilson welding lincoln backing plate make spacer to fit between spindle and plate redo the 4 mounting holes attach all the parts from 71-76 chevy caprice station wagon use 1940 Ford drum and hub
on rear, take the 71-76 backing plate cut out center make new center to fit your Ford weld in new center, notice how you could have done this to the front too make spacer to go on hub add a lip so drum registers use longer studs from Speedway stay away from cheap chinese studs from your local auto parts stores for front and rear wheel cylinders, size them to match master cylinder label all parts so you or future owner can identify them notice that your donor car only supplied you with enuff for two wheels, get self adjusters from an El Camino, resize them for your new 12" shoes
heres the pic for the spacer for the rear brake hub and a picture of a 1959 caddy taillight in a 1960 Ford pickup rear fender
the silver bracket at the lower right of this pic is a drum retainer for if the axle breaks. In this pic it is bolted on backwards so i dont misplace it during construction
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