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Projects No spark from coil, no start

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mister E., May 4, 2018.

  1. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 2,001

    Truck64
    Member
    from Here

    Keep in mind there is a radio noise suppression condenser in the pic on the + side of the coil.

    Remove that. If it's shorted, you will not get a spark. Worry about RFI that later. edit: OK, not your rig. Never mind.

    The condenser inside the distributor is the important one, and the condensers sold today are (mostly) complete shit. Put the old one back in, or grab one from the junkbox. I know you want use good parts but they don't sell good ignition parts anymore at the local shop. Try eBay and use NOS or NORS.
     
  2. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    I'm getting juice on BOTH sides of the coil. That doesnt seem right to Me
     
  3. Can you focus better on the +/- sides of the coil?
    The ignition wires go to + side of coil.
    The wire from the distributor goes to the -side of the coil.

    Run a diagnostic
    Key on-
    Hook the test light clamp to ground, probe + side of coil. Test light should light.
    Hook test light clamp to + side of coil and probe distributor base/body should light.
    Probe timing plate, should light.
    Probe each side of closed points, should light.
    Rotate engine to open points and again probe each side of points, one side should light and not the other.
    Hook test light clamp to - side of coil and hold probe to + side of coil then have helper crank engine. Test light should flash.

    Do that and report back to where there is a problem.

    Keep the test light out of the coil plug terminal.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
    rfraze likes this.
  4. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Sorry, I didn't see the earlier posts. My cell phone is touchy with service
     
  5. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Ok so far, I am getting power from the distributor and points seem fine, the COIL still has live feed on both sides but gives NO spark. So I am thinking My next step is to replace the coil and go from there.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  6. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 1,764

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Re-read post #33. Write down and report the results here.
     
  7. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,192

    BJR
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Read post #14 and do what I told you to do to see if you have spark and report back.
     
  8. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 689

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    The wire from the coil to the dist

    While cranking is that wire pulsing the test g light ?


    Also do ALL the quick checks Vicky told you to do
    It’s all there
    If you have tried 3 coils chances are..... it’s not the coil


    And for what it’s work throw a complete ignition tune up on this thing
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  9. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 285

    sevenhills1952

    My 2 cents...
    There are two basic 12 volt coils , internal and external ballast resistor.
    Internal + terminal should be +12 volts switched via ignition switch, so power when cranking and on position.
    External has ballast resistor wire or a resistor, usually on firewall, around 2 to 4 ohms and about 20-30 watt. So still switched power one side of resistor, other side to coil +. This coil + side is also wired to starter circuit. This is because cranking voltage will be lower, maybe 10 volts or so, which this way you get that 10v to coil + only cranking...running voltage is dropped by resistor (resistor bypassed cranking).
    Negative coil side to distributor points paralleled by condenser (capacitor).
    Bear in mind this is for "standard" negative ground system...positive ground coil polarity is reversed.
    When points are closed coil primary builds up energy, when points open the field collapses and secondary sparks through center tower high voltage terminal.
    Bottom line to troubleshoot you can simply remove negative lead going to distributor. Remove tower lead going to center of distributor cap. Put a (good) spark plug in lead with spark plug threaded area on a good ground. You can simply have lead close to but not touching ground alternatively.
    With key on you should read roughly 12.5 volts on + coil terminal. Now using an insulated wire or clip lead go from coil -- to ground...just for a second...release it...spark plug should arc. Each time you ground it, release it will snap. If it doesn't, coil is bad. If it does, turn key off. Take distributor cap off. Be sure points are closed...reconnect lead from distributor to coil neg. With key on and using something insulated (plastic stick, small screwdriver) open points. Each time plug should arc. If not turn key off, remove wire (coil -- to dist.)
    check resistance this wire to ground. Should be close to zero ohms (lowest Rx1 scale). Each time you open points should go to infinity (high).
    Most ignition problems points are glazed. Always replace condenser with new points.
    Be very careful around coils...20-30,000 volts!!!!! A good coil and 20-30kV will throw a 1/4" to 1/2" spark easily.

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk... Gary from Virginia
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  10. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 2,001

    Truck64
    Member
    from Here

    I disagree with that insofar the typical auto
    parts store today sell absolute garbage points & condensers made in you-know-where that are far worse than the worn out old school OEM parts installed. See this over and over and over. Guy wants to do the "right thing" and ends up stranded on the side of the road.
     
    6inarow likes this.
  11. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 1,764

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    I'll agree with the points, even old points dressed up will last a good long time. Thing is, if the old condenser is dead, it'll not come back to life. You then have to use what's available, then search for old stock parts.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  12. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 2,001

    Truck64
    Member
    from Here

    True enough but the problem today is the odds are much more likely that the brandy new one is a dud, and the old crusty one is just fine. The parts stores keep selling this shit year after year.
     
  13. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Ok following your advice to the letter, testing pos and neg side of coil. There is NO power at all to either side nor to the base of dist.
    Not sure as to what's up there, unless I am misunderstanding you
     
  14. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,413

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member


    he was asking you to check the dist base and breaker plate for a ground. this is why he asked you to hook the clip on the test light to the pos battery terminal and probe the dist base and breaker plate. if the test light lights you have a good ground
     
    rfraze likes this.
  15. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.


    Oh K. I got it. Yeah its good that way. The positive to the base lights up.
     
  16. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,413

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    ok hook the clip of the test lite to ground and probe the neg coil terminal while someone cranks it over with the key on
     
  17. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Will have to do that Tuesday when I'm able to get back to the yard. Its closed til then. But I will definitely keep you all up to date.
     
  18. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 285

    sevenhills1952

    I just checked ebay, there are 100%+ sellers with points like this...
    NOS USA MADE DELCO REMY D1007 1876600 UNI-SET CONTACT POINTS AND-CONDENSER $10.79
    What I said was true...I'm taking my time just trying to be helpful. Always have a spare in glove box.
    If he's getting +12V to coil+, then either with negative wire removed or just open points...a piece of paper between contact points is fine...then a simple jumper wire coil negative to ground...pop-pop-pop, a hv arc each time jumper is lifted off of ground. It's that simple! Coil is now proven good.
    Next remove paper, open points with a small screwdriver...each second you open it should hv arc...pop each time.
    Nos condenser another matter because capacitors have a shelf life, fail after a while. Yes...so important the motor to frame ground must be good, distributor well grounded, points breaker plate moves via vacuum advance and it has a braided bare wire ground, plate to distributor housing. Troubleshoot step by step.
    Last condenser (capacitor) I checked was 0.47ufd. In auto school many years ago we were taught look at the points...if the negative terminal is negative material then you are negative capacitance. So is there is a "point" on the movable contact and depression on the other, you need a higher capacitance condenser, and vice versa.
    Only trying to help.


    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk... Gary from Virginia
     
  19. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Thank you, I do appreciate your trying to help. This is My first time attempting to fire this ol girl up after sitting between 10 - 12 yrs.

    I just want to get her purring like she should and drive her home to continue working on her from there.

    All help from everybody is welcomed, and appreciated.
     
  20. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,413

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    You should put it on a trailer and tow it home. there will be many things including the brake hydraulic system that will need attention after 10 plus years sitting. no brakes on the trip home would get exciting real quick
     
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  21. Just give me the test light and get out of the way!!!!

    Here's a boot, the boot is full of piss, now pour the piss out the boot.
    The instructions on how to do that are written on the bottom if you need help.
    Be careful not to get piss on you head.
     
    bobwop, Blues4U, wbrw32 and 1 other person like this.
  22. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.


    Wtf?!!?
     
  23. Is the red wire on the - negative side of the coil???

    image.png
     
  24. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    Yes it is.
     
  25. Is the red wire the ignition power source ?
     
  26. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 60

    Mister E.

    I guess, I am not sure 100%

    Red wire goes to neg terminal on coil and leads to distributor
     
  27. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,413

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    There should only be one wire on the negative terminal and it should go to the distributor


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. Like this?

    image.jpeg

    And the green wires go where ?
    Take both green wires off the coil and test just the wire (separated from coil)
    Which one is hot? Or are they both hot?
     
    Atwater Mike, Mark Hinds and 6inarow like this.
  29. Unless there's a tachometer involved but we have to guess right?
    There's usually 2 wires on the hot side, one from the starter bypass amd one from the resistor.
     
    Atwater Mike and Moriarity like this.
  30. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 2,001

    Truck64
    Member
    from Here

    Well sure, if local auto parts stores sold NOS ignition parts you might have a point.
     

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