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Hot Rods No room for Master Cylinder....'49 Hudson

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by airbrushguy, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. airbrushguy
    Joined: Jul 1, 2005
    Posts: 324

    airbrushguy
    Member
    from NJ

    Putting a 500 Cadillac/ TH400 into a 1949 hudson Super with a Fatman Fab frontend and despite what seems like a difficult instal, the brake pedal and MCplacement is turning out to be the most difficult. The lower left side of the engine needs to fit the steering column, brake pedal, MC, and exhaust.
    Has anyone been in this situation and found a brake pedal/MC/and 7"booster setup that is compact enough to fit in tight space?
    The under dash 90˚ setup won't fit with stock heater/fan in way. I can't find a setup that will mount anywhere except on the inside of the left frame member
    Does anyone have a suggestion or solution that worked for them and doesn't leave the booster and cylinder out on the firewall?
    Thanks
     
    Hemi Joel likes this.
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,449

    squirrel
    Member

    Can you leave off the booster, and run a smaller bore m/c, and still stop ok? that would be my approach, I think.

    I didn't have too much trouble with the stock brake system in the 51 Hornet I had, but it had a rather anemic engine, compared to the Caddy mill you're swapping in.
     
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  3. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,733

    jimmy six
    Member

    A 3/4 or 7/8” MC and multi piston front calipers an at least 11” rear drums with 7/8”or 15/16” wheel cylinder will stop like power if your pedal ratio is 5 to 1 or more. Wilwood has 4 or 6 piston calipers.
     
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  4. airbrushguy
    Joined: Jul 1, 2005
    Posts: 324

    airbrushguy
    Member
    from NJ

    It will have disks in front/drums back, and it weighs 3800lbs.
    Just thought that would require power brakes....?
     
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  5. borderboy1971
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 690

    borderboy1971
    Member
    from Canada

    I built a Coe 40 Ford years back, and mounted the booster inside the firewall (dash side) and master cylinder on the outside (engine side). Homemade swing pedal assy. Would that work for You?
     
  6. airbrushguy
    Joined: Jul 1, 2005
    Posts: 324

    airbrushguy
    Member
    from NJ

    Good suggestion but would really like to hide it completely.
    Thanks
     
  7. borderboy1971
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 690

    borderboy1971
    Member
    from Canada

    Maybe mount the master under the dash and use a remote vac booster.
     
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  8. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 830

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

  9. ratrod0
    Joined: Apr 15, 2005
    Posts: 1,082

    ratrod0
    Member

    You can put the master, under the rear floorboard the push rod can be as long as you wont
     
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  10. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 400

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    How much space do you need - can you offset the engine a couple of inches to the right?
     
  11. morac41
    Joined: Jul 23, 2011
    Posts: 532

    morac41
    Member

    Radrod0 X 2 Shift the mastervac halfway along the chassis and use a rod to actuate..
     
  12. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,157

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    I had similar issues with my 46 Olds with my underdash brake assembly due to AC unit. I moved entire assembly to the left and modified with an extended 1" solid bar machined with 3/4DD end and delton bushings for pendulum pedal to position correctly. I used a 3/4DD coupling to connect and fabricated a short fulcrum to maintain OEM geometry and machinded end for circlip to secure and prevent lateral movement. Problem solved, my engineer is more than happy as many RHD conversions used a similar crossover rod whilst maintaining LHD brake assemblies. 20190903_154212.jpeg 20190515_213908.jpeg 20190515_213847.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-G973F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  13. Rusty Heaps
    Joined: May 19, 2011
    Posts: 606

    Rusty Heaps
    Member

    Brakes are highly over rated any way!:eek:
     
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  14. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 1,968

    goldmountain

    Not sure if this helps but I had a 1989 Dodge Colt made my Mitsubishi that had its brake booster and master cylinder on the passenger side with linkage for the brake pedal on the driver's side. You could make something like that.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,449

    squirrel
    Member

    They did that because it was a RHD car to start with, and they decided to export a few without wanting to redesign the whole car. Interesting idea.
     
  16. You can get remote power boosters, you mount the master cylinder on the pedal like normal, then plumb the hydraulic line to the remote booster, then out to the callipers, great space savers, google VH44 brake booster


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  17. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 1,968

    goldmountain

    There is more than one way to skin a cat.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 437

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Would a hydroboost system fit under the floor? It should be smaller diameter than a vacuum booster, but you would have to deal with the lines from the power steering pump.
     
  19. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,914

    sunbeam
    Member

    How about a truck hydrovac.
     
  20. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,157

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Some Alpha Romeos, Mercedes Benz and others have that factory crossover bar, saves re-engineering components if you have some spare under dash space available.
    20120929_151952.jpg

    20120929_151857.jpg
    This is my under-dash brake set up, the assembly was pushed over to the left for clearance, this placed the OEM brake pedal to the left of column, too dangerous in an emergency. The crossover bar moved the brake pedal 6" to the right and on the righthand of column, a lot easier and safer to access. Out of sight, out of mind. I've a hidden remote reservoir for MC with a stout steel frame (Secured side to side and firewall) that supports everything; brakes and AC. Remove the bolts and the frame with everything attached just drops out if necessary, or just service individual parts in situ.
    upload_2020-1-16_14-20-16.png
    upload_2020-1-16_14-17-17.png
    OEM brake pedal pivot was moved from circled area to lined area for required clearance, all OEM geometry was maintained. OEM brake pedal boss was drilled out with holesaw allowing pedal to be fully welded to new solid stock. Small flange on top of pedal arm is OEM fulcrum that will be cut off when complete.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  21. ken bogren
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 701

    ken bogren
    Member

    Here's a setup I saw on an early ford bronco. Fairly compact. Note the angle.

    P1000620a.jpg
    P1000626a.jpg
     
    squirrel likes this.
  22. Dwardo
    Joined: Aug 1, 2017
    Posts: 71

    Dwardo

    Hudson offered power brakes in 1954. Maybe if you could get the pedal and bracket from one of those the pedal part might be near to a bolt-on. They're kind of rare. Also, I ran a Bendix Hydrovac booster on my '51 Hornet and it was almost too good. Very powerful. I put it on the left fender liner where it made seeing the timing marks on the flywheel almost impossible.
     
  23. KustomKreeps
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 325

    KustomKreeps
    Member

    On my 49 Hudson i used a hydroboost setup under the floor. heaps of room for it.
    Even air out still has room.

    Some details about it are on my 49 build thread... really need to update that >< /lazy
     

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